Jesus/Holy Spirit/God?

Originally posted by RJHinds
. Who does the wind take orders from? 😏

The Wind God of course.

Or maybe its to do with atmospheric pressure differences and the spin of the Earth.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
The Wind God of course.

Or maybe its to do with atmospheric pressure differences and the spin of the Earth.

According to the Hoy Bible, Jesus told the wind to be still and it obeyed. Who else has ordered the wind to do something and it obeyed him? Nobody that I am aware of.

Originally posted by RJHinds
According to the Hoy Bible, Jesus told the wind to be still and it obeyed. Who else has ordered the wind to do something and it obeyed him? Nobody that I am aware of.

Still no comments on those scriptures?

Originally posted by galveston75
How about this one?

Philippians 2:6-8
New King James Version (NKJV)

6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the poin ...[text shortened]... (NASB)

13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

I have been over these verses so many times it gets boring and frustrating to have to repeat over and over. But the verses you are using ironically are used by Trinitarians to argue the existence of the Trinity.
To make it easy on myself I will have to refer you here.

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/verses

Every verse you used is found there to not only dispel the Trinity, but pre-existence as well.

Originally posted by galveston75
Another scripture for the trinity to explain about Jesus "prehuman" existance....

Philippians 2:6-8
Good News Translation (GNT)

6 He always had the nature of God,
but he did not think that by force he should try to remain [a] equal with God.
7 Instead of this, of his own free will he gave up all he had,
and took the nature of a servant. ...[text shortened]... e put to death. This is something God/Jehovah could not do as only a perfect human could.

The “Pre-existence” of Christ
As Paul prophesied, myths began to replace the clear and simple assertions of Scripture. One of the myths that arose was that Jesus Christ existed prior to his birth. This idea led to the necessity of the doctrine of the Incarnation, which attempts to explain how God became a human. In his thorough examination of the doctrine of the Incarnation, James D. G. Dunn recognizes that the concept arose late in the first century through a mistakenly literal interpretation of the gospel of John. Dunn devotes many hundreds of pages to documenting that the doctrine of pre-existence can be substantiated only from John:
Only in the Fourth Gospel does the understanding of a personal pre-existence fully emerge, of Jesus as the divine Son of God before the world began sent into the world by the Father…at the end of the first century a clear concept of pre-existent divine sonship has emerged, to become the dominant (and often the only) emphasis in subsequent centuries. [36]
Other verses in the New Testament have been used from time to time to attempt to establish the doctrine of pre-existence, but many scholars have concluded that neither Paul nor Peter nor James nor the Synoptics portray Jesus as a pre-existent being. [37]
Without the idea of Christ existing in some form before his birth, there would be no need for the doctrine of an “incarnation.” There have been many non-Trinitarians through the ages who have openly stood against the Trinity but who have believed that Jesus was the first of all of God’s creation and was the being through whom God created the world. Apparently Arius, the bishop who debated with Athanasius at the Counsel of Nicaea in 325 A.D., held this position. [38] In examining the gospel of John, Chapter 6, we freely admit that there are verses in Scripture that seem to say that Jesus actually existed prior to his birth. However, there is a greater weight of evidence against such an incongruous notion (can one exist before he exists?), and the verses that seem to say he did “pre-exist” can be understood in a way that does not support such a counterintuitive notion. Furthermore, the few “pre-existence” verses are outnumbered by many clear verses that teach that Jesus began his life as a seed in the womb of Mary.
The first place the Messiah is mentioned is in the Old Testament, and there is no statement that Jesus was already alive in any form. On the contrary, countless references to the Messiah speak of him in the literal future tense. For example, “I will raise up for them a prophet…” (Deut. 18:18), is typical in speaking of the Messiah in a future tense. Another example is in Samuel: “…I will raise up your offspring…I will be his father, and he will be my son…” (2 Sam. 7:12 and 14). Trinitarians say that the Messiah was “God the Son,” the second person of the Trinity, who was “co-eternal” (i.e., never created). In that case he would “already” have been the Son, and the use of the future tense is misleading, even inaccurate. Another example is: “…His name will be called Wonderful Counselor…” (Isa. 9:6 – NASB). The phrase “will be called” shows clearly that the people did not think the Messiah was already around. If the Messiah were already alive, he would have already had a name. There are theologians who believe that Jesus appeared in the Old Testament, but there is no place where the text says that “Jesus” appeared. God and angels came into concretion for people, but never Jesus, for he did not yet exist. [39]
If Jesus did “pre-exist,” then the only way that he could become a baby would be to “incarnate.” Thus, the fact that the Scripture does not mention any such “incarnation” is a good argument that it never actually occurred. This is made even more apparent when the birth narratives in Matthew and Luke are read, because they clearly indicate that Jesus’ life began when God impregnated Mary. For example, the wording of Matthew 1:18 is specific. Most translations read something like: “This is how the birth of Jesus came to be….” The Greek word translated “birth” is genesis, which technically means “beginning,” and is translated “birth” only when the context demands it. It was apparent that the early copyists were unhappy that the Bible said “the beginning of Jesus Christ,” so in many Greek texts they changed “genesis,” “beginning,” to the closely related word, “gennesis,” which definitely means “birth.” [40] Thankfully, there are honest people doing textual work today and it is openly admitted, even by Trinitarians, that the original word used in Matthew was genesis (“beginning&rdquo😉.
As Peter declared by revelation, “For he was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you” (1 Pet. 1:20 – NASB). Christ was in God’s foreknowledge before the world began, but was not yet a reality. Christians are spoken of in exactly the same way. Romans 8:29 says Christians were foreknown. Ephesians 1:4 (KJV) says Christians were chosen before the foundation of the world. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says Christians were chosen from the “beginning.” 2 Timothy 1:9 (NASB) says the grace of God was granted us from all eternity. Yet no theologians say that Christians “pre-existed,” so it is inconsistent of them to take the same wording about both Christ and Christians and arrive at two different conclusions—that Christ “pre-existed,” but Christians were only “foreknown.”

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/articles/jesus-christ/jesus-christ-incarnated-or-created

Originally posted by checkbaiter
The “Pre-existence” of Christ
As Paul prophesied, myths began to replace the clear and simple assertions of Scripture. One of the myths that arose was that Jesus Christ existed prior to his birth. This idea led to the necessity of the doctrine of the Incarnation, which attempts to explain how God became a human. In his thorough examination of the doctri ...[text shortened]... n.”

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/articles/jesus-christ/jesus-christ-incarnated-or-created

The apostle John says that it was the WORD (LOGOS) that was with GOD in the beginning, not the Messiah or Christ Jesus. John goes on to state the Word was God, not an angel.

As the article you quoted pointed out, the Messiah or Christ Jesus, a human being, was not in existence in the beginning. It was through the WORD, not a human being, that all things were created and made.
John says it was the WORD that became flesh and dwelt among men.

Paul writes to Timothy:

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

(1 Timothy 3:16 KJV)

The WORD was not called the SON in the beginning. It was not until the birth in the flesh of the Messiah (Christ Jesus) that the WORD was called the SON of GOD and Yahshua (Jesus) was called the son of man. But we must understand from scripture that the fullness of the GODHEAD dwelt in the fleshly body of Christ Jesus. For the Apostle Paul says:

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

(Colossians 2:9 KJV)

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!

Originally posted by checkbaiter
The “Pre-existence” of Christ
As Paul prophesied, myths began to replace the clear and simple assertions of Scripture. One of the myths that arose was that Jesus Christ existed prior to his birth. This idea led to the necessity of the doctrine of the Incarnation, which attempts to explain how God became a human. In his thorough examination of the doctri ...[text shortened]... n.”

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/articles/jesus-christ/jesus-christ-incarnated-or-created

Some info for you. Take it as you wish...

At least by the age of 12, the young Jesus had come to appreciate that he must be busy doing his heavenly Father’s business. (Luke 2:48, 49) Some 18 years later, Jesus came to John the Baptist at the Jordan River and was baptized. As Jesus prayed, the heavens opened, and the holy spirit descended on him. Imagine the flood of memories that came to mind as he recalled the countless millenniums he had served alongside his Father as master worker, spokesman, prince of God’s army, and as the archangel, Michael. Then came the thrill of hearing his Father’s voice telling John the Baptist: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.”—Matthew 3:16, 17; Luke 3:21, 22.
John the Baptist certainly did not doubt Jesus’ prehuman existence. As Jesus approached him, John declared: “See, the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world!” And he added: “This is the one about whom I said, Behind me there comes a man who has advanced in front of me, because he existed before me.” (John 1:15, 29, 30) The apostle John too knew of Jesus’ preexistence. “He that comes from above is over all others,” he wrote, and: “He that comes from heaven is over all others. What he has seen and heard, of this he bears witness.”—John 3:31, 32.
About the year 61 C.E., the apostle Paul urged Hebrew Christians to appreciate the full importance of Messiah’s arrival on earth and his work as High Priest. Drawing attention to Jesus’ role as Spokesman, Paul wrote: “God . . . has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son . . . through whom he made the systems of things.” Whether this refers to Jesus’ role as “master worker” at creation or to his involvement in God’s progressive arrangements for man’s reconciliation, Paul here adds his testimony to Jesus’ prehuman existence.—Hebrews 1:1-6; 2:9.

The Bible teaches that Jesus’ life began long before he was born in that stable in Bethlehem. The prophecy of Micah, quoted earlier, goes on to say that His “origin is from early times, from the days of time indefinite.” (Micah 5:2) As God’s firstborn Son, Jesus was a spirit creature in heaven before he was born as a human on earth. Jesus himself said: “I have come down from heaven.” (John 6:38; 8:23)

God’s Son also showed humility by accepting the assignment to come to earth. Consider what he had to leave behind. He was the archangel. He was also “the Word”—Jehovah’s own Spokesman. (John 1:1-3) He resided in heaven, Jehovah’s “lofty abode of holiness and beauty.” (Isaiah 63:15) Nonetheless, the Son “emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men.” (Philippians 2:7)

The Bible teaches that Jesus lived in heaven before he came to earth. Micah prophesied that the Messiah would be born in Bethlehem and also said that His origin was “from early times.” (Micah 5:2) On many occasions, Jesus himself said that he lived in heaven before being born as a human. (John 3:13; 6:38, 62; 17:4, 5) As a spirit creature in heaven, Jesus had a special relationship with Jehovah.

Jesus is Jehovah’s most precious Son—and for good reason. He is called “the firstborn of all creation,” for he was God’s first creation. (Colossians 1:15) There is something else that makes this Son special. He is the “only-begotten Son.” (John 3:16) This means that Jesus is the only one directly created by God. Jesus is also the only one whom God used when He created all other things. (Colossians 1:16) Then, too, Jesus is called “the Word.” (John 1:14) This tells us that he spoke for God, no doubt delivering messages and instructions to the Father’s other sons, both spirit and human.
Is the firstborn Son equal to God, as some believe? That is not what the Bible teaches. As we noted in the preceding paragraph, the Son was created. Obviously, then, he had a beginning, whereas Jehovah God has no beginning or end. (Psalm 90:2) The only-begotten Son never even considered trying to be equal to his Father. The Bible clearly teaches that the Father is greater than the Son. (John 14:28; 1 Corinthians 11:3) Jehovah alone is “God Almighty.” (Genesis 17:1) Therefore, he has no equal.
Jehovah and his firstborn Son enjoyed close association for billions of years—long before the starry heavens and the earth were created. How they must have loved each other! (John 3:35; 14:31) This dear Son was just like his Father. That is why the Bible refers to the Son as “the image of the invisible God.” (Colossians 1:15) Yes, even as a human son may closely resemble his father in various ways, this heavenly Son reflected his Father’s qualities and personality.
Jehovah’s only-begotten Son willingly left heaven and came down to earth to live as a human. But you may wonder, ‘How was it possible for a spirit creature to be born as a human?’ To accomplish this, Jehovah performed a miracle. He transferred the life of his firstborn Son from heaven to the womb of a Jewish virgin named Mary. No human father was involved. Mary thus gave birth to a perfect son and named him Jesus.—Luke 1:30-35.

Originally posted by RJHinds
The apostle John says that it was the WORD (LOGOS) that was with GOD in the beginning, not the Messiah or Christ Jesus. John goes on to state the Word was God, not an angel.

As the article you quoted pointed out, the Messiah or Christ Jesus, a human being, was not in existence in the beginning. It was through the WORD, not a human being, that all things ...[text shortened]... the Godhead bodily.

(Colossians 2:9 KJV)

HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!

Just can't get all the facts down as to who is who can you? Oh well. But if you missed it John says differently....


John 1:14
New King James Version (NKJV)

The Word Becomes Flesh
14 And the "Word" became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

God has never been called the word, only his SON Jesus has that title.




“The Word”
Read John 1:14. Why is Jesus called “the Word,” or Logos? This title identifies the function that he has performed since other intelligent creatures came into existence. Jehovah used his Son to convey information and instructions to other spirit sons, even as God used that Son to deliver His message to humans on earth. The fact that Jesus is the Word, or God’s Spokesman, is echoed in what Christ said to his Jewish listeners: “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him that sent me. If anyone desires to do His will, he will know concerning the teaching whether it is from God or I speak of my own originality.” (John 7:16, 17) Jesus continues to bear the title “The Word of God” even after his return to heavenly glory.—Rev. 19:11, 13, 16.

The person who became known as Jesus Christ did not begin life here on earth. He himself spoke of his prehuman heavenly life. (Joh 3:13; 6:38, 62; 8:23, 42, 58) John 1:1, 2 gives the heavenly name of the one who became Jesus, saying: “In the beginning the Word [Gr., Logos] was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god [“was divine,” AT; Mo; or “of divine being,” Böhmer; Stage (both German)]. This one was in the beginning with God.” Since Jehovah is eternal and had no beginning (Ps 90:2; Re 15:3), the Word’s being with God from “the beginning” must here refer to the beginning of Jehovah’s creative works. This is confirmed by other texts identifying Jesus as “the firstborn of all creation,” “the beginning of the creation by God.” (Col 1:15; Re 1:1; 3:14) Thus the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus in his prehuman existence) as God’s first creation, his firstborn Son.

“The Word” as a Title. In the Christian Greek Scriptures “the Word” (Gr., ho Logos) also appears as a title. (Joh 1:1, 14; Re 19:13) The apostle John identified the one to whom this title belongs, namely, Jesus, he being so designated not only during his ministry on earth as a perfect man but also during his prehuman spirit existence as well as after his exaltation to heaven.
“The Word was a god.” Regarding the Son’s prehuman existence, John says: “In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.” (Joh 1:1, NW) The King James Version and the Douay Version read: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” This would make it appear that the Word was identical with Almighty God, while the former reading, in the New World Translation, indicates that the Word is not the God, Almighty God, but is a mighty one, a god. (Even the judges of ancient Israel, who wielded great power in the nation, were called “gods.” [Ps 82:6; Joh 10:34, 35]) Actually, in the Greek text, the definite article ho, “the,” appears before the first “God,” but there is no article before the second.
Other translations aid in getting the proper view. The interlinear word-for-word reading of the Greek translation in the Emphatic Diaglott reads: “In a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word.” The accompanying text of the Diaglott uses capital and small capital letters for the God, and initial capital and lowercase letters for the second appearance of “God” in the sentence: “In the Beginning was the LOGOS, and the LOGOS was with GOD, and the LOGOS was God.”
These renderings would support the fact that Jesus, being the Son of God and the one used by God in creating all other things (Col 1:15-20), is indeed a “god,” a mighty one, and has the quality of mightiness, but is not the Almighty God. Other translations reflect this view. The New English Bible says: “And what God was, the Word was.” The Greek word translated “Word” is Logos; and so Moffatt’s translation reads: “The Logos was divine.” The American Translation reads: “The Word was divine.” Other readings, by German translators, follow. By Böhmer: “It was tightly bound up with God, yes, itself of divine being.” By Stage: “The Word was itself of divine being.” By Menge: “And God (= of divine being) the Word was.” And by Thimme: “And God of a sort the Word was.” All these renderings highlight the quality of the Word, not his identity with his Father, the Almighty God. Being the Son of Jehovah God, he would have the divine quality, for divine means “godlike.”—Col 2:9; compare 2Pe 1:4, where “divine nature” is promised to Christ’s joint heirs.
The Four Gospels—A New Translation, by Professor Charles Cutler Torrey, says: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was god. When he was in the beginning with God all things were created through him; without him came no created thing into being.” (Joh 1:1-3) Note that what the Word is said to be is spelled without a capital initial letter, namely, “god.”
This Word, or Logos, was God’s only direct creation, the only-begotten son of God, and evidently the close associate of God to whom God was speaking when he said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness.” (Ge 1:26) Hence John continued, saying: “This one was in the beginning with God. All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.”—Joh 1:2, 3.
Other scriptures plainly show that the Word was God’s agent through whom all other things came into existence. There is “one God the Father, out of whom all things are, . . . and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are.” (1Co 8:6) The Word, God’s Son, was “the beginning of the creation by God,” otherwise described as “the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and upon the earth.”—Re 3:14; Col 1:15, 16.
In due time a change came about. John explains: “So the Word became flesh and resided among us [as the Lord Jesus Christ], and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father.” (Joh 1:14) By becoming flesh, the Word became visible, hearable, feelable to eyewitnesses on earth. In this way men of flesh could have direct contact and association with “the word of life,” which, John says, “was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have viewed attentively and our hands felt.”—1Jo 1:1-3.
The glorified Lord Jesus Christ continues to carry the title “the Word,” as noted in Revelation 19:11-16. There in a vision of heaven John says he saw a white horse whose rider was called “Faithful and True,” “The Word of God”; and “upon his outer garment, even upon his thigh, he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords.”
Why God’s Son is called “the Word.” A title often describes the function served or the duty performed by the bearer. So it was with the title Kal-Hatzé, meaning “the voice or word of the king,” that was given an Abyssinian officer. Based on his travels from 1768 to 1773, James Bruce describes the duties of the Kal-Hatzé as follows. He stood by a window covered with a curtain through which, unseen inside, the king spoke to this officer. He then conveyed the message to the persons or party concerned. Thus the Kal-Hatzé acted as the word or voice of the Abyssinian king.—Travels to Discover the Source of the Nile, London, 1790, Vol. III, p. 265; Vol. IV, p. 76.
Recall, too, that God made Aaron the word or “mouth” of Moses, saying: “He must speak for you to the people; and it must occur that he will serve as a mouth to you, and you will serve as God to him.”—Ex 4:16.
In a similar way God’s firstborn Son doubtless served as the Mouth, or Spokesman, for his Father, the great King of Eternity. He was God’s Word of communication for conveying information and instructions to the Creator’s other spirit and human sons. It is reasonable to think that prior to Jesus’ coming to earth, on many of the occasions when God communicated with humans he used the Word as his angelic mouthpiece. (Ge 16:7-11; 22:11; 31:11; Ex 3:2-5; Jg 2:1-4; 6:11, 12; 13:3) Since the angel that guided the Israelites through the wilderness had ‘Jehovah’s name within him,’ he may have been God’s Son, the Word.—Ex 23:20-23; see JESUS CHRIST (Prehuman Existence).
Showing that Jesus continued to serve as his Father’s Spokesman, or Word, during his earthly ministry, he told his listeners: “I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak. . . . Therefore the things I speak, just as the Father has told me them, so I speak them.”—Joh 12:49, 50; 14:10; 7:16, 17.

I give up. debating you two is pointless...the three of us have full cups and cannot be added to. Peace...🙂

Originally posted by RJHinds
There are three persons, not three beings, as I have told you time and again.
There are not three eternal beings, but only one eternal being.

http://carm.org/ontological-and-economic-trinity

So it's a multiple personality god. Or is it just schizophrenic?

Originally posted by sonhouse
So it's a multiple personality god. Or is it just schizophrenic?

Lol. Not a bad description of his god.

Originally posted by galveston75
Just can't get all the facts down as to who is who can you? Oh well. But if you missed it John says differently....


John 1:14
New King James Version (NKJV)

The Word Becomes Flesh
14 And the "Word" became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

God has never ...[text shortened]... speak, just as the Father has told me them, so I speak them.”—Joh 12:49, 50; 14:10; 7:16, 17.

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
(John 20:28-29)

How is it that Jesus could be called "my God" by Thomas, if there is only one God?

Originally posted by RJHinds
How is it that Jesus could be called "my God" by Thomas, if there is only one God?

Because whoever wrote the Gospel of John, two or three generations after Jesus died, was deliberately trying to promote the theory that Jesus was God incarnate.

Originally posted by RJHinds
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
(John 20:28-29)

How is it that Jesus could be called "my God" by Thomas, if there is only one God?

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/verses/john-20-28

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/verses/john-20-28

Good stuff. It would seem ones that believe in the trinity would still be interested in the truths in the Bible and would be interested in learning them even if it meant giving up on this pagan doctrine.
I do know from many that I've talked to over the years and even ones in my family that are trinitarians, it is a hard thing for them to see and even harder for them to let go. But once they do, so much more of the Bible becomes clearer and they also finally realize who these beings are and their uniqueness from one another.
I know they honor Jesus very much, but once he becomes more clear to them of who he really is, it gets even greater. And more importantly they realize who God really is as there is no other like him.