Jesus/Holy Spirit/God?

Originally posted by RJHinds
You seem unable to grasp that Jesus was also human. This was the only way that God could die for man's sin. Only the flesh could die, not the Spirit. Jesus was crying out from His sufferings in the flesh like any other man in His appeal to God. Don't you remember that John says that the Word became flesh and dwelt among men. He also said the Word was Go ...[text shortened]... h as in Jehovah and YAH as in HalleluYAH.

HalleluYAH !!! Praise the Lord! HOLY! HOLY! HOLY!

No you are wrong in that I completely understand Jesus was human. What does that have to do with my posting? The trinity teaches that all three of the "persons" as you say are equal in all things. Your version is obviously different then the widely accepted version but that's beside the point.
I'm not interested in your dodging the facts I posted with those scriptures that clearly show Jesus is in an subordinate positon to his Father on all levels and always has been and always will be.
Direct your comments to those scriptures and why this clearly presents many problems to the trinity?

And it "could" also include the holy spirit? You have to do better then that.

Originally posted by boonon
Hi,

I wouldn't say he was asking God a "question". Throughout the gospels he quoted the old testament. He used this for teaching mostly but also to show to the priests and Pharisee's that he "knew" who he was, and was showing them through scripture.

In Matthew 27:46 he was not asking a question. He was declaring who he was by quoting psalm 22:1 .

I ...[text shortened]... estion at all, only a grand declaration of fullfilled prophecy.

In his love,
Boonon

Thanks for your comment. And yes he was in pain and was reacting to that, but a question is a question.

Originally posted by RJHinds
That is true. However, after the Son of God pleased the Father, the Son was given all authority in Heaven and on Earth. The JWs are partly right about the Holy Spirit, because He is the active force of God and does the will of the Father and the Son by using His active force. The Holy Spirit is not just doing His own will for He is in complete agreement w ...[text shortened]... Son. Jesus described the Holy Spirit as like the wind. Who does the wind take orders from? 😏

So the son "pleased" the Father? Lol. No clue as to how that disproves they are the same "person" do you? Why does one have to "please" the other if they are the same?

This keeps getting harder and hadder for you to explain doesn't? Ya know why? Because it doesn't exist...............

Originally posted by galveston75
No you are wrong in that I completely understand Jesus was human. What does that have to do with my posting? The trinity teaches that all three of the "persons" as you say are equal in all things. Your version is obviously different then the widely accepted version but that's beside the point.
I'm not interested in your dodging the facts I posted with ...[text shortened]... rinity?

And it "could" also include the holy spirit? You have to do better then that.

How much better can the truth get. If you will not accept the truth, you are the only one to blame for that. 😏

Originally posted by galveston75
Thanks for your comment. And yes he was in pain and was reacting to that, but a question is a question.

Hi,

So you choose to view it as a question and not the way I presented it? Just wondering why?

Obviously I suspect that you are an avid student of the scriptures because I have seen many of your posts and you do show knowledge of Gods word.

If you read all of psalm 22 can you not see that I 'may' be correct and it is not a question or do you disagree? If you do disagree could you explain to me why my reasoning is wrong.

Thanks.

Originally posted by galveston75
So the son "pleased" the Father? Lol. No clue as to how that disproves they are the same "person" do you? Why does one have to "please" the other if they are the same?

This keeps getting harder and hadder for you to explain doesn't? Ya know why? Because it doesn't exist...............

Again, I never said the Father and the Son are the same person. The Father is one person and the the Son and the Holy Spirit are two different persons. That makes THREE ETERNAL PERSONS all together in ONE ETERNAL SPIRIT BEING we call GOD. Remember GOD is SPIRIT and NOT HUMAN. The FATHER is a PERSON, but NOT a HUMAN BEING. The HOLY SPIRIT is a PERSON, but NOT a HUMAN BEING. The SON is a PERSON, who is also a HUMAN BEING. The Son is the only one of the three persons in the GODHEAD that can speak from the human perspective and that is why HE will judge all humans and not the Father or the Holy Spirit.

Originally posted by galveston75
Thanks for your comment. And yes he was in pain and was reacting to that, but a question is a question.

Did you ever wonder why the words Eli Eli., etc were even used? I don't think the translators were sure of the English translation...some say He cried out "For this reason I was spared...." I think Boonon is right in that Jesus quoted Psalm 22 to remind people of what was happening before their very eyes.
They were confused, here was their King being crucified..

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Did you ever wonder why the words Eli Eli., etc were even used? I don't think the translators were sure of the English translation...some say He cried out "For this reason I was spared...." I think Boonon is right in that Jesus quoted Psalm 22 to remind people of what was happening before their very eyes.
They were confused, here was their King being crucified..

That answer is good enough for me too, especially when we remember there was a sign above His head saying, KING OF THE JEWS. But G-man wants an answer that confirms that the Watchtower is correct about God and His Christ and I doubt if anything short of that will satisfy him.

Originally posted by boonon
Hi,

So you choose to view it as a question and not the way I presented it? Just wondering why?

Obviously I suspect that you are an avid student of the scriptures because I have seen many of your posts and you do show knowledge of Gods word.

If you read all of psalm 22 can you not see that I 'may' be correct and it is not a question or do you disagree? If you do disagree could you explain to me why my reasoning is wrong.

Thanks.

No problem. Here is a question that was written in by a person wanting this clearified for them:

Why, while hanging on the stake, did Jesus Christ cry out, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”—U.S.A.

Jesus’ question was a quotation from a psalm of David. (Ps. 22:1) In David’s case the question related to a momentary condition of abandonment. Surrounded by enemies, David found himself in a situation that made it appear that he was completely forsaken by Jehovah. The tremendous strain resulting therefrom moved David to ask why it had happened despite his being unaware of any guilt. But David had not lost faith, for in the same psalm he prayed: “Do make haste to my assistance.”—Ps. 22:16-19.
Similarly, when uttering the words of Psalm 22:1, Jesus keenly sensed that his Father had momentarily withdrawn his protection and “forsaken” or released him into the hands of his enemies, to die as an accursed criminal on a stake. (Gal. 3:13) In asking “why,” Jesus did not imply that he did not know the reason for this abandonment nor was he expecting an answer from his Father. The situation is comparable to that of a Christian who knows the reason for human suffering but is moved, under the weight of intense difficulties, to ask “why” either silently or audibly. The questioner thereby reveals that he has no reason to think that the suffering is due to his transgressions. Thus, besides fulfilling Psalm 22:1, Jesus’ outcry evidently served to confirm his innocence and focused on the real purpose for his suffering.—Matt. 27:46; compare John 12:27, 28, 33.

This was of course a question that David asked during his life and it was also a question that Jesus proclaimed himself before his death.
But there is no evidence in the Bible that Jesus was simply referring back to David at this time and repeating his words just to be repeating them. Jesus was in a horrible situation at this time and was human and would react as a human would.
In fact this was a fulfillment of what Jesus would say when he was confronted with his death.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Did you ever wonder why the words Eli Eli., etc were even used? I don't think the translators were sure of the English translation...some say He cried out "For this reason I was spared...." I think Boonon is right in that Jesus quoted Psalm 22 to remind people of what was happening before their very eyes.
They were confused, here was their King being crucified..

Yes he is right in the sense Jesus did say those words but again did he say this just to fulfill bible prophecy or was he really feeling as a human would and cry out to his Father? It is not a natural thing to give up ones life as a human and Jesus was diffenently a human at this time. Jesus knew very clearly the big picture and what his death would accomplish and was very willing to do this, but he was still a human.
But on the other hand Jesus did know the words David spoke and knew this was a forshadow of what would apply to him at his death. So it is still a question he stated and one that would have fit his situation.

Originally posted by RJHinds
How much better can the truth get. If you will not accept the truth, you are the only one to blame for that. 😏

Still no responce to those scriptures?

Another scripture for the trinity to explain about Jesus "prehuman" existance....

Philippians 2:6-8
Good News Translation (GNT)

6 He always had the nature of God,
but he did not think that by force he should try to remain [a] equal with God.
7 Instead of this, of his own free will he gave up all he had,
and took the nature of a servant.
He became like a human being
and appeared in human likeness.
8 He was humble and walked the path of obedience all the way to death—
his death on the cross.

Notice verse (((( 7 )))) where it is explaining that he gave up what he had before he came to earth. It clearly states that before he came to earth he was in the "nature" of God or he was a spirit just as God is but it by no means does this say he was God.
And it clearly does not state he was God's equal on any level especially with God being immortal and one that "cannot die" as the Bible states.
Jesus surrendered himself to be put to death. This is something God/Jehovah could not do as only a perfect human could.

Originally posted by galveston75
Yes he is right in the sense Jesus did say those words but again did he say this just to fulfill bible prophecy or was he really feeling as a human would and cry out to his Father? It is not a natural thing to give up ones life as a human and Jesus was diffenently a human at this time. Jesus knew very clearly the big picture and what his death would acco ...[text shortened]... him at his death. So it is still a question he stated and one that would have fit his situation.

Psalm 22 was a forshadowing of the events happening at the crucifiction.
Don't you see these verses happening?....

Ps 22:7-8
All those who see Me ridicule Me;
They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
8 "He trusted in the Lord, let Him rescue Him;
Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!"
NKJV

Ps 22:14-15
I am poured out like water,
And all My bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax;
It has melted within Me.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
And My tongue clings to My jaws;
You have brought Me to the dust of death.
NKJV

Ps 22:16-18
The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me.
They pierced My hands and My feet;
17 I can count all My bones.
They look and stare at Me.
18 They divide My garments among them,
And for My clothing they cast lots.
NKJV
Do you not see the rest of the Psalm...Ps 22:21-22

You have answered Me.

22 I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will praise You.
NKJV.....
There are many forshadowings or "types of Christ" throughout the Old Testament.
Noah's Ark that saved the righteous from a perverse world, Joseph saved his people from famine, the book of Ruth and the kinsman redeemer, Esther saved the Jews from extinction, and many many more.
Jesus with His last breath was teaching and encouraging His people. He received a posterity in every believer that believes.

Originally posted by galveston75
Another scripture for the trinity to explain about Jesus "prehuman" existance....

Philippians 2:6-8
Good News Translation (GNT)

6 He always had the nature of God,
but he did not think that by force he should try to remain [a] equal with God.
7 Instead of this, of his own free will he gave up all he had,
and took the nature of a servant. ...[text shortened]... e put to death. This is something God/Jehovah could not do as only a perfect human could.

I do not like this translation. I do not believe Jesus existed before His birth. If He did, why be born at all? Why not just appear in the flesh from whatever form he had before? If God can part the Red Sea, this would be an easy task for Him. Look at Genesis 6, the Nephelim...it says in the epistles that they left their prior domain(spiritual bodies) and simply came into concretion. Surely Jesus could have done the same could He not?
Jesus was 100% human and had to grow and learn to trust God from a child. He was the 2nd Adam, He did not inherit the sinful nature, that is the only difference from a normal human. He was a man, the only man who perfectly obeyed God. He perfectly loved God. It had to be this way to legally redeem man.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I do not like this translation. I do not believe Jesus existed before His birth. If He did, why be born at all? Why not just appear in the flesh from whatever form he had before? If God can part the Red Sea, this would be an easy task for Him. Look at Genesis 6, the Nephelim...it says in the epistles that they left their prior domain(spiritual bodies) an ...[text shortened]... n who perfectly obeyed God. He perfectly loved God. It had to be this way to legally redeem man.

How about this one?

Philippians 2:6-8
New King James Version (NKJV)

6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.


Or this?

Philippians 2:6-8
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be [a]grasped, 7 but [b]emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death [c]on a cross.

Actually every Bible states this fact that he DID exist as a spirit before he came to earth.
Let me know if you do need more....


Also Colossians speaks of Jesus as well:

Colossians 1:15
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

15 [a]He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation



Also:

John 3:13
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

13 No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.