Job and God's Complicity

Originally posted by Paul Dirac
KellyJay, were you able to bring yourself to pray my prayer above?

In particular, what do you think of this part of it: "And being all-powerful, You certainly had the capability of changing the rules so that ONLY the human species would suffer these things."

This seems like you have a very liberal view of the way life should be.
The rules are the rules, some times they change and some times
they do not. With authority comes both power and responsibility. If
people do what is right with regard to both planet and each other
much of the grief and suffering on this planet would diminish greatly.
The trouble is that people do not care that their action affect others
both human and animals negatively at times. Shoot, some do not
even care if their actions hurt their mates and children, simply
because they want what they want. So then we reap what we sow, and
it is painful to watch and live through.
Kelly

Originally posted by lucifershammer
1. You assume that God "changed the rules of the Universe" following Original Sin...

Well, I'll give you this: you are a breath of fresh air after we read the claims of certain fundamentalists that prior to Adam and Eve disobeying God the Second Law of Thermodynamics was not in effect in the Universe.

Originally posted by KellyJay
...their action affect others both human and animals negatively at times...

I think this will be the last time in this thread I will point this out: a fish getting its guts torn out by another fish deep in some ocean--neither fish ever having in its life come within a mile of a human being--shows that if the biosphere was created to be the way it is by some Creator deity, then that deity is not worthy of worship by decent people. You can say until you are blue in the face that the behavior of carnivores and parasites is all due to choices made by human beings, but you will not persuade me that you think that way for any reason other than the brainwashing you have received. I thought that same way when I was a child, due to said brainwashing at the hands of the adults around me. But to paraphrase the Apostle Paul, I grew up and put away childish beliefs.

Originally posted by Paul Dirac
I think this will be the last time in this thread I will point this out: a fish getting its guts torn out by another fish deep in some ocean--neither fish ever having in its life come within a mile of a human being--shows that if the biosphere was created to be the way it is by some Creator deity, then that deity is not worthy of worship by decent ...[text shortened]... e adults around me. But to paraphrase the Apostle Paul, I grew up and put away childish beliefs.

So if that occurs naturally without a creator, it is simply the
way it is, and that would be okay?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
So if that occurs naturally without a creator, it is simply the
way it is, and that would be okay?
Kelly

We do not say that a shark is immoral for eating a fish by ripping it apart.
The shark's act is neither moral, nor immoral. Rather it is amoral.
The creature is simply following its instincts and eating in order to survive.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yea, I have heard that teaching before. I also agree with it, that God
is with us and will never leave us. That does not mean that we cannot
have kids that get sick and die, it does not mean that a drunk driver
will not end the lives of half of a family. The point I'd stress is that
even in the middle of all the dark things that can happen, God is
wit ...[text shortened]... s come to all people like the scripture says, just like the sun
shine, it gets us all.
Kelly

Well said Kelly!

I like to say 'Life is hard, God is good.'

Mike

Originally posted by KellyJay
So if that occurs naturally without a creator, it is simply the
way it is, and that would be okay?
Kelly

I think evolution is how this planet wound up with the food chain that we observe, but--and this is an important distinction--I do not worship Evolution and tell Evolution that it is good and loving and kind.

All that the fable tells us about God is that no matter what you do, he will screw you up if he wants to.

You may as well do what you want, and don't worry about his judgement.

Go on, stick your finger up to him and tell him where to go.
I will guarantee you that nothing will happen.

And the reason for this is simple -

GOD DOES NOT EXIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Paul Dirac
I think evolution is how this planet wound up with the food chain that we observe, but--and this is an important distinction--I do not worship Evolution and tell Evolution that it is good and loving and kind.

And that same evolution then produces conscious beings capable of being good and loving and kind, and promulgating norms of behavior based on those notions—what they see as the best of their own behavior (not that other animals are incapable of nurturing behavior). Sometimes those normative behaviors are restricted to a particular clan, tribe, race or nation; sometimes extended to humanity as a whole; sometimes extended to other creatures as well.

Is the Job story, then—as a story—about a man who hopes for such behavior (in this case, the virtue being justice) from the very ground of his being, which he sees as God, and in the end simply has to relinquish that hope (“recant and relent” ) in the face of the God who speaks “out of the whirlwind?” If so, can Job be construed perhaps as the first “existentialist?”