Originally posted by @rajk999I used “saved” as shorthand for salvation and yes, I believe it refers to eternal life
Saved does not mean one is guaranteed eternal life. You agree or disagree?
Originally posted by @romans1009You should ask yourself why you "can’t explain it any clearer than [you] already have". It's because your position is incoherent, but you've never really thought it through. Seems that, at best, all you can do is regurgitate what you've been taught.
You don’t seem to understand it either.
Salvation is by faith alone.
Good works are a sign or evidence or outward manifestation of someone who is saved but not a requirement for salvation.
Once again, if a man professed faith in Christ and died two seconds later of a heart attack or car accident or whatever, he would still be saved, even though he did ...[text shortened]... to do any good works.
Just like the thief on the cross next to Christ was saved by faith alone.
Originally posted by @fmfSure. I’m the sole caretaker for my elderly mother. I contribute generously to Christian-based charities. There are probably other “good works” that I’m not recalling right now
Are you able to describe some of the 'good works' you do that are an outward manifestation your belief that you are "saved" - in a straightforward non-prideful way?
Originally posted by @romans1009So what does 'without good works, faith is dead' mean?
Yes, as I have said several times, someone who accepted Christ and died shortly afterward (such as the thief on the cross) would be saved even though no good works were performed
I thought that the story of the thief - based on the three Gospels the story crops up in -
simply demonstrates that Jesus can "save" even people who are not his followers and who are even mocking him if he looks into their heart and decides to "save" them. No?
Originally posted by @thinkofoneIt’s really quite clear and understandable if you settle down and think about what I wrote.
You should ask yourself why you "can’t explain it any clearer than [you] already have". It's because your position is incoherent, but you've never really thought it through. Seems that, at best, all you can do is regurgitate what you've been taught.
Originally posted by @romans1009Is not this kind of thing the duty of any responsible child with humanity? You are doing it as an "outward manifestation" of your faith? Would you stop caring for her if you lost your faith?
I’m the sole caretaker for my elderly mother.
Originally posted by @romans1009Paul said they are not the same
I used “saved” as shorthand for salvation and yes, I believe it refers to eternal life
Originally posted by @fmfIt means good works are a manifestation, or evidence, of genuine saving faith.
So what does 'without good works, faith is dead' mean?
I thought that the story of the thief - based on the three Gospels the story crops up in -
simply demonstrates that Jesus can "save" even people who are not his followers and who are even mocking him if he looks into their heart and decides to "save" them. No?
The thief on the cross didn’t mock Jesus; the thief on Jesus’ other side did (Jesus was crucified in between two thieves.) And the thief was saved after he expressed faith in Jesus’ divinity.
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Originally posted by @romans1009Evidently you're too prideful to admit it. FMF has rightly pointed out that you have argued both sides of contrary positions.
It’s really quite clear and understandable if you settle down and think about what I wrote.
You need to "settle down and think about what [YOU] wrote".
Originally posted by @romans1009Does whatever "generously" means here have to meet some standard or level to be "evidence" of your faith so that you are "saved"? Is there a threshold that you must not go below?
I contribute generously to Christian-based charities.
Originally posted by @romans1009Who refers to these as the salvation verses? Certainly not Christ or Paul. You seem to be indoctrinated by your church
No, they’re not. But we’re talking in circles. You’re focusing on someone’s performance as the requirement for salvation when it’s not. See John 3:16 and Romans 10:9, which are often referred to as the “salvation verses.”
Originally posted by @romans1009According to all three Gospels? Are you sure? The Gospels seem to indicate that 'expressing faith in Jesus’ divinity' was merely an example of the mockery.
The thief on the cross didn’t mock Jesus; the thief on Jesus’ other side did (Jesus was crucified in between two thieves.) And the thief was saved after he expressed faith in Jesus’ divinity.
Originally posted by @fmfNo, of course not, but you’re proving my point - good works are not a requirement for salvation.
Is not this kind of thing the duty of any responsible child with humanity? You are doing it as an "outward manifestation" of your faith? Would you stop caring for her if you lost your faith?
An atheist who rejects Christ but cares for his elderly mother would not be saved.
A Christian who has accepted Christ and cares for his elderly mother would be saved.
Both do the same good works, but one is saved and the other isn’t.
“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.“
(John 14:6)
Originally posted by @romans1009And helping one of your relatives is one of these manifestations? If a non-Christian helps one of his or her relatives, what is that a manifestation of?
It means good works are a manifestation, or evidence, of genuine saving faith.
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Originally posted by @romans1009Would a "Christian who has accepted Christ" and did no good works be saved?
No, of course not, but you’re proving my point - good works are not a requirement for salvation.
An atheist who rejects Christ but cares for his elderly mother would not be saved.
A Christian who has accepted Christ and cares for his elderly mother would be saved.
Both do the same good works, but one is saved and the other isn’t.
“Jesus saith unto hi ...[text shortened]... , I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.“
(John 14:6)