Originally posted by @romans1009I not only understand exactly what you're saying, I know the arguments you're going to make. The "salvation by faith alone" crowd regurgitate the same arguments over and over again. I've seen your types of arguments countless times over the many years I've been posting on this forum. It's the same ill-thought-out arguments over and over again. That being the case, how could I possibly be "anxious"?
If you would slow down and consider what I’m saying, instead of being overly eager to argue, you might gain a better understanding of what I’m saying.
Just slow down and take a deep breath. Quiet your mind.
Why is it that those who buy into the "salvation by faith alone" doctrine are almost invariably the most prideful? You're in over your head kid. You're just too prideful to recognize it.
Originally posted by @romans1009I understand what you were illustrating.
I was illustrating the absurdity of believing good works are necessary for salvation.
Did you really need that explained? That wasn’t obvious to you?
What you don't seem to understand is that you repeatedly keep arguing both sides of contrary positions depending on when it suits you.
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Originally posted by @thinkofoneAccording to the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry, one becomes one with God by abiding in the way, the truth and the life.
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There is no reason to qualify this as you constantly do. You can just say "the gospel". The fact that you always qualify it as "the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry" really only means that you do not believe the gospel.
Had He not gone to Calvary to prepare a place for His believers, as He stated in John 14:3.
To a degree the disciples abode WITH Jesus. But He goes to the cross that He who abides WITH them will take a further step to abide IN them.
" And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you forever; even the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him;
but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you." (John 14:16,17)
Jesus was abiding WITH them for three plus years. Jesus is going to prepare a place for them to be with Him where He is. And He who is with them shall be IN them.
He is in those who receive Him as "another Comforter" - and that for eternity.
" and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you forever." (v.16b)
If you don't receive the Holy Spirit you cannot abide in Christ. If He had not gone to His cross to accomplish redemption there would be no place for you in God. You could not get in. Sin excludes you forever from partaking of God's life.
Though the word of preparation has been done it is still up to a man to believe and receive this finished preparation of Christ's work to bring the forgiven sinner into God.
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The gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry describes the way, the truth and the life.
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There is THE Gospel. Your constant qualification reading like - "the gospel preached by Jesus during His minisitry"
is a scholarly SOUNDING expression which merely cloaks your unbelief in the Gospel.
It would be more honest to describe your doctrine as "the only part of the gospel I will accept". Of course that filtered, watered down, limited "gospel" is really not much good news at all. It is nothing new but more self righteous / self justification denying any need for Jesus Christ.
Whoever abides in the way, the truth and the life is a true disciple of Jesus and is set free from committing sin - which is required to become one with God, i.e., have eternal life. Abiding in the way, the truth and the life also makes one "clean".
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If you do not receive the word that Jesus speaks you cannot be made clean. These disciples received it. You reject it.
If you think you receive His words only "while He walked the earth" (meaning all else past Calvary is fictional myth) you have rejected His word. Because you reject His word you are not made clean.
One of the disciples was not made clean. He was referring to the unbelieving Judas Iscariot who betrayed Him.
"Jesus said to him, ... you are clean, but not all of you.
For He knew the one betraying Him; therefore He said, Not all of you are clean." (John 13:10b,11)
The unbeliever was not clean.
And likewise today, the unbeliever falsely showing effection to Jesus with expressions like - "the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the earth" or "the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry" and is concealing his rejection of Christ, is not made clean.
So you need to repent of that that you may receive the resurrected Jesus Christ by faith and be made clean in His justification.
It's all about abiding in the way, the truth and the life.
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The WAY, the TRUTH, the divine LIFE are all a living Person - Christ.
" ... I am the way, and the reality, and the life ..."
Your euphemistic expression - "the gospel preached by Jesus while He walked the earth" or some equivalent is a proclamation that Christ is dead. It is your standing on your unbelief in THE Gospel.
You have been deceived.
Years ago when I read these words I thought they were an anticlimax.
" and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you forever." (v.16b)
Then I realized that the "another Comforter" is Jesus in another form.
The first Comforter transfigures into "another Comforter". And Jesus is the One who abode with the disciples Who is about to abide IN the disciples.
It is proved in many verses. Here too:
"Even the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him;
but you know Him , because He abides with you and shall be in you.
I will not leave you orphans; I am coming to you." (14:17-18)
The pronoun suddenly changes from verse 17 "Him" and "He" to verse 18 "I".
Then I realized that the coming of "Another Comforter" is Jesus coming to His believers. He comes to abide in them joining the Spirit with their human spirit.
"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17)
Jesus Christ in His resurrection state can compound Himself with our being. Christ can live in us.
Originally posted by @romans1009Will be good to see you back, especially as Becker has returned to the site. The moment you both post in the same time period we'll request that check on your IP addresses.
Interesting debate. Going to bed but will probably pick this up again tomorrow at some point
As a separate person, i'm certain you'll welcome this...
Originally posted by @thinkofoneYou’re in such a rush to disagree and argue you don’t comprehend or understand the posts you’re replying to. Sad.
I understand what you were illustrating.
What you don't seem to understand is that you repeatedly keep arguing both sides of contrary positions depending on when it suits you.
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeAbsolutely. But I suspect you’ll find another diversion/distraction to draw attention away from your inability to have an intelligent debate on substance
Will be good to see you back, especially as Becker has returned to the site. The moment you both post in the same time period we'll request that check on your IP addresses.
As a separate person, i'm certain you'll welcome this...
Originally posted by @thinkofoneYes, and you and your trolling pals have said this numerous times to avoid debating substance. That and falsely accusing me of being someone I’m not.
I understand what you were illustrating.
What you don't seem to understand is that you repeatedly keep arguing both sides of contrary positions depending on when it suits you.
It’s sad that your foolish pride stands in the way of your being educated. Maybe someday it won’t
Originally posted by @thinkofoneWhatever. More insults instead of debating substance. You haven’t falsely accused me of being Becker in a while; when are you going back to that? It’s one of the most used tools in your trolling toolbox.
I not only understand exactly what you're saying, I know the arguments you're going to make. The "salvation by faith alone" crowd regurgitate the same arguments over and over again. I've seen your types of arguments countless times over the many years I've been posting on this forum. It's the same ill-thought-out arguments over and over again. That being ...[text shortened]... iably the most prideful? You're in over your head kid. You're just too prideful to recognize it.
Originally posted by @fmfYes, because I know my own heart and faith. I don’t know someone else’s.
You clearly think you have the ability to declare yourself already "saved". And yet you also say that such things are really "a determination for God". You say that judging the heart and deciding who is "saved" is something for God and that you don't have the ability to do that. But, then again, you DO apparently have the ability to declare yourself already "saved".
Originally posted by @fmfPost the Gospels in which the account appears and I’ll be happy to address it. You’re the one making the claim; why should I do your work for you? Especially when I know what you’re claiming is false and anyone who’s interested can find out it’s false simply by Googling the verses and reading the verses for themselves
One Gospel doesn't mention the incident. This is interesting when you consider how crucial you seem to believe the incident is.
Two Gospels depict the scene as one of open mockery.
And one Gospel illustrates the mockery.
Three Gospels don't support this key piece of your theology. And the fourth Gospel only supports it if you project things onto the ...[text shortened]... to, and which are not supported by the other three Gospels.
You have not addressed this yet.
Originally posted by @romans1009I don't need to Google the Gospel accounts. I know what they say. That's why I have made the case I have.
Post the Gospels in which the account appears and I’ll be happy to address it. You’re the one making the claim; why should I do your work for you? Especially when I know what you’re claiming is false and anyone who’s interested can find out it’s false simply by Googling the verses and reading the verses for themselves
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Originally posted by @romans1009I have never "accused [you] of being Becker" be it "falsely" or otherwise.
Whatever. More insults instead of debating substance. You haven’t falsely accused me of being Becker in a while; when are you going back to that? It’s one of the most used tools in your trolling toolbox.
Your accusation is a complete and utter fabrication.
You live in a complete and utter fantasy world - as your posts on this thread have and continue to demonstrate. You haven't a clue as to what constitutes "debating substance".
You keep allowing your pride to get the better of you.
Originally posted by @fmfYou know what they say word for word?
I don't need to Google the Gospel accounts. I know what they say. That's why I have made the case I have.
What case have you made? If you’d post the verses you are referencing instead of your summary/interpretation of them, your case might be persuasive (or could be corrected.)