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Seems like most Christians seem to understand the concept of Jesus "abiding" in people and do not believe that those people and Jesus are one and the same.
Yet many seem not to be able to understand the concept of God "abiding" in Jesus in a similar manner.
Seems like most Christians seem to understand the concept of being able to "see Jesus" in the works some people do and do not believe that those people and Jesus are one and the same.
Yet many seem not to be able to understand the concept of being able to "see God" in the works Jesus did in a similar manner.
Perhaps these concepts can be best understood through the following:
John 14
9Jesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10“Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. 11“Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.
Clearly Jesus makes a distinction between Him and God.
Clearly Jesus expects Philip to be able to "see" the Father in the works that He does with the Father abiding / working within Him.
Jesus explains a similar concept here
John 12
44And Jesus cried out and said, “He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me. 45“He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me.
Clearly Jesus makes a distinction between Him and God.
Clearly Jesus expects His followers (believers) to be able to "see God" in Him. This is similar in concept to where Jesus expects Philip to "see" the Father in the works that He does with the Father abiding / working within Him.
It's not surprising that Thomas would echo these concepts in uttering the words, "My Lord and my God!".
Thomas is merely echoing the concepts Jesus explained in John 12 and John 14.
It does not mean that Jesus and God are one and the same.
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The confession of Thomas that Jesus Christ is his Lord and his God is entirely consistent with John's crucial prologue of his Gospel. That is that the Word was God and became flesh.
" ... and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1b)
"And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us (and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only Begotten from the Father,) full of grace and reality." (v.14)
John nearly closes his Gospel with the prologue confirming confession of the doubting empiricist Thomas.
"Thomas answered and said to him, My Lord and my God."
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Originally posted by sonship[/b]The bottom line is that the concept that Jesus and God are one and the same is inconsistent with the words of Jesus while He walked the Earth.
The confession of Thomas that Jesus Christ is his Lord and his God is entirely consistent with John's crucial prologue of his Gospel. That is that the Word was God and became flesh.[b] " ... and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1b)
"And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us (and we beheld His glory, glory as of ...[text shortened]... ist Thomas.
[quote] [b] "Thomas answered and said to him, My Lord and my God."
As Jesus plainly states in John 12:44-45:
"“He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me. 45“He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me."
And in John 14:10
"“Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."
Jesus makes a clear distinction between Him and God.
Jesus is the Son. God is the Father. They are not one and the same.
The Father sent the Son. They are not one and the same.
Those who "see God" in Jesus, "see" the Father in the works that He does with the Father abiding / working within Him.
Thomas is merely echoing the concepts Jesus explained in John 12 and John 14:
“He who sees Me sees the One who sent Me."
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Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeIt's good that leunammi doesn't see your loaded question for what it is?
An excellent demonstration of Christianity at work sir, turning the other cheek.
Have a splendid New Year.
It's good that leunammi looks upon having it pointed out to him the same as being "struck"?
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneLet us hope sir you don't carry into 2017 your overwhelming fear of an atheist with a theology degree. (Darn, mentioned it again).
It's good that leunammi doesn't see your loaded question for what it is?
It's good that leunammi looks upon having it pointed out to him the same as being "struck"?
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneexcellent reasoning sir!
Seems like most Christians seem to understand the concept of Jesus "abiding" in people and do not believe that those people and Jesus are one and the same.
Yet many seem not to be able to understand the concept of God "abiding" in Jesus in a similar manner.
Seems like most Christians seem to understand the concept of being able to "see Jesus" in the ...[text shortened]... s explained in John 12 and John 14.
It does not mean that Jesus and God are one and the same.
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Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeSir I will help you regain your faith and you can pursue your dreams and become an RE teacher! Think of all the paid holidays!
We will have to discuss my degree quietly sir, as it gives ThinkOfOne the willies.
Was actually planning on being an RE teacher. Imagine the horror!!!
Originally posted by robbie carrobieObliged sir, though I've never had any faith to regain.
Sir I will help you regain your faith and you can pursue your dreams and become an RE teacher! Think of all the paid holidays!
Did RE at A level and loved it. People are passionate when they discuss politics or religion. You just don't get that with Geography or French.
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Originally posted by Ghost of a Dukehmm perhaps you just are conscious of your spirituality, or the subject is so rich, or your teacher was awesome. Either way I still think you could be an atheist and still teach RE if you were not a quack.
Obliged sir, though I've never had any faith to regain.
Did RE at A level and loved it. People are passionate when they discuss politics or religion. You just don't get that with Geography or French.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieEven now sir i'm just a PGCE away from completing that dream.
hmm perhaps you just are conscious of your spirituality, or the subject is so rich, or your teacher was awesome. Either way I still think you could be an atheist and still teach RE if you were not a quack.
(Actually preferred my sociology teacher, Mr Miller. He would often bring his guitar into lessons and sing songs from the 60's). He was one cool dude.