06 Nov 11
Originally posted by RJHinds"Well yes, but.. all the mummies I see in the cartoons are wrapped in cloth STRIPS, so, that's what I picture when I read the bible. Not that I read the bible, mind you, but I copied and pasted the verses from my favorite non-Christian website."
In reference to Luke 24:12 the following link is to the Greek Interlinear.
http://interlinearbible.org/luke/24-12.htm
The Greek word "othonia" is the plural of "othonion" meaning "a piece of linen".
I looked up the Greek word "othonion" in Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the
New Testament to get the meaning in the singular.
So "othonia" is co ...[text shortened]... hole body.
I think you are intelligent enough to understand this.
Just honing my mind-reading techniques. 🙄
06 Nov 11
Originally posted by sumydidNot that I would ever be caught dead defending an atheist, but VS at least has the verses correct, and he even uses the KJV, which is my translation of choice.
"Well yes, but.. all the mummies I see in the cartoons are wrapped in cloth STRIPS, so, that's what I picture when I read the bible. Not that I read the bible, mind you, but I copied and pasted the verses from my favorite non-Christian website."
Just honing my mind-reading techniques. 🙄
One can only hope, that if he can present these few verses as portraying the truth, perhaps it's not so far a trek to consider other verses in the Bible as also portraying truth.
Not that I even have a horse in this race. My belief in God, the Son, and my salvation does not rest on a single piece of cloth, be it 2000 years old, or 500.
06 Nov 11
Originally posted by sumydidI think that is also what some of the translators were picturing when
"Well yes, but.. all the mummies I see in the cartoons are wrapped in cloth STRIPS, so, that's what I picture when I read the bible. Not that I read the bible, mind you, but I copied and pasted the verses from my favorite non-Christian website."
Just honing my mind-reading techniques. 🙄
they did the translations.
06 Nov 11
Originally posted by SuzianneOh well I never meant to suggest the verses were wrong, I'm sure they were quite correctly quoted. Let's just say it's a pretty safe bet VS didn't type the verses using a study bible he keeps at arm's length for quick reference. 😉
Not that I would ever be caught dead defending an atheist, but VS at least has the verses correct, and he even uses the KJV, which is my translation of choice.
One can only hope, that if he can present these few verses as portraying the truth, perhaps it's not so far a trek to consider other verses in the Bible as also portraying truth.
Not that I eve ...[text shortened]... e Son, and my salvation does not rest on a single piece of cloth, be it 2000 years old, or 500.
06 Nov 11
Originally posted by sumydidWhat I am saying is that when the translator translates a singular noun as
Oh well I never meant to suggest the verses were wrong, I'm sure they were quite correctly quoted. Let's just say it's a pretty safe bet VS didn't type the verses using a study bible he keeps at arm's length for quick reference. 😉
a plural that is an incorrect translation that anyone that knows anything
at all about what singular and plural means should understand. You do not
even have to know any Greek to understand that.
06 Nov 11
Yep, well you were "schooled" on the bible by VS nonetheless. Don't you feel demoralized?
Of course, he could have just pointed you to the Shroud of Turin Wikipedia page which not only lists all of the verses he posted (and conveniently makes the text available by url link), but also mentions the bit about John Calvin and his Treatise On Relics.
So I'll leave it up to the readers to decide, but it doesn't appear you were "schooled" by VS but instead, you just had some stuff from Wikiepedia copied and pasted for your perusal.
Good night brother.
06 Nov 11
Originally posted by sumydidOh wow, nice catch.
Of course, he could have just pointed you to the Shroud of Turin Wikipedia page which not only lists all of the verses he posted (and conveniently makes the text available by url link), but also mentions the bit about John Calvin and his Treatise On Relics.
A lazy atheist. Who'd've guessed?
06 Nov 11
Originally posted by RJHindsAnd there is not one shred of evidence that suggests they are genuine. There is also not one single religious reason to believe they are genuine.
The Shroud of Turin and "Face-cloth of Christ" have not been proven to be
hoaxes. I believe there is enough evidence that they are genuine. There is
not one shread of evidence that proves they are a fake.
06 Nov 11
Originally posted by RJHindsI'm kind of indifferent on it. The implications are pretty obvious. The figure looks like Jesus, etc. But I've been focusing primarily on the evidence against it, and so far none of it has held up to close scrutiny.
I believe there is much evidence that suggests that they are genuine.
06 Nov 11
Originally posted by RJHindsthat's okay, you don't believe anything else written in the bible, i wouldn't expect you to believe what the bible says about cleaning and anointing the body with spices and lotions before wrapping in strips of linen with a separate face cloth.
In reference to Luke 24:12 the following link is to the Greek Interlinear.
http://interlinearbible.org/luke/24-12.htm
The Greek word "othonia" is the plural of "othonion" meaning "a piece of linen".
I looked up the Greek word "othonion" in Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the
New Testament to get the meaning in the singular.
So "othonia" is co ...[text shortened]... hole body.
I think you are intelligent enough to understand this.
SoT:single sheet laid loosely around a body
bible: multiple strips of linen wrapped tightly as per jewish burial custom
rjh: fail
SoT: bloody, dirty body prior to shroud being placed
bible: spiced and lotioned before wrapping as per jewish burial custom.
rjh: fail
06 Nov 11
Originally posted by sumydidwhere i get the source material is irrelevant to the facts that the source material exists and that the bible proves the shroud of turin as a fraud (at least as far as the claims made about it), and that calvin said what he said about the shroud.
Yep, well you were "schooled" on the bible by VS nonetheless. Don't you feel demoralized?
Of course, he could have just pointed you to the Shroud of Turin Wikipedia page which not only lists all of the verses he posted (and conveniently makes the text available by url link), but also mentions the bit about John Calvin and his Treatise On Relics.
...[text shortened]... had some stuff from Wikiepedia copied and pasted for your perusal.
Good night brother.
06 Nov 11
Originally posted by sumydidoh yes, let's type every verse and ignore that they are available with a quick search, copy and paste. i'm sure that all the christians here type every verse without ever coping and pasting from online sources.
Oh well I never meant to suggest the verses were wrong, I'm sure they were quite correctly quoted. Let's just say it's a pretty safe bet VS didn't type the verses using a study bible he keeps at arm's length for quick reference. 😉
they are such cute little saints, these christians. always diligently typing the verses.
06 Nov 11
1 edit
Originally posted by VoidSpiritI did not see anything about them washing or cleaning the body.
that's okay, you don't believe anything else written in the bible, i wouldn't expect you to believe what the bible says about cleaning and anointing the body with spices and lotions before wrapping in strips of linen with a separate face cloth.
SoT:single sheet laid loosely around a body
bible: multiple strips of linen wrapped tightly as per jewish bu ...[text shortened]... ng placed
bible: spiced and lotioned before wrapping as per jewish burial custom.
rjh: fail
It also does not say "strips" in the orignal Greek. This is added by
the translators. There is evidence of spices and flowers on the Shroud
and some the pollen on the Shroud is only found in Israel according
to one investigator. I am not familar with the Jewish burial customs
of the time but according to the text of the NT they had to hurry and
may have taken shortcuts. Even if there were more than one cloth
wrapping the body, that does not prove the shroud was not one of
them.