1. Joined
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    24 Feb '17 18:152 edits
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/23/jehovahs-witnesses-charity-drops-attempts-to-block-abuse-inquiry

    Finally some progress, but only after bitter resistance from the self proclaimed "sole holders of god's truth on earth"

    Jan 23rd 2017, Article begins:
    The UK’s main Jehovah’s Witnesses charity has dropped efforts to block an investigation into how it handled allegations of sexual abuse, including of children, after a legal fight lasting more than two years.

    The Charity Commission launched an inquiry into safeguarding at the religion’s main UK charity in May 2014 after receiving allegations that survivors of rape and sexual abuse, including people abused as children, were forced to face their attackers in “judicial committees”.

    The Jehovah’s Witnesses, however, resisted the investigation into the Watch Tower Bible Tract Society of Great Britain (WTBTS), which oversees the UK’s 1,500 congregations and is believed to play a key role in deciding how claims of abuse are handled.

    The WTBTS, which had a turnover of more than £80m last year, launched a series of legal challenges to the inquiry. These included an attempt to challenge in the supreme court the commission’s decision to start an investigation. The charity also fought in the lower courts against production orders that would oblige it to give the commission access to records showing how it handled the allegations.

    The commission announced last week that, more than two and a half years after the investigation was launched, the WTBTS had shared some of the documents it had been seeking and the commission had since cancelled the production order. The charity had also dropped the last of its legal cases against the inquiry, the supreme court having refused to hear that particular case in July.

    Although charities do sometimes challenge the commission’s decisions in court, the extent and length of the Jehovah’s Witnesses litigation were unprecedented in recent times, a commission spokesman told the Guardian last year.

    A spokesman for the WTBTS said: “In light of the progress of the inquiry and the information obtained by the commission from Watch Tower and other sources, the commission has agreed to revoke the production order. Watch Tower has therefore agreed to withdraw its application for judicial review of the production order and a consent order has been filed with the high court to conclude the proceedings.

    “Watch Tower will now work with the commission to explore the issues that are the subject of the statutory inquiry and to address the commission’s regulatory concerns.”

    The commission is conducting a separate investigation into the Manchester New Moston congregation, where three adult survivors of child sex abuse were allegedly brought face-to-face with their abuser shortly after he was released from prison after being jailed for attacking them.

    He was later “disfellowshipped”, or expelled, from the church. But two women in separate cases told the Guardian last year that although the church can disfellowship people from the tight-knit congregations for minor offences, such as gambling, their abusers had been allowed to remain in the church. One, who was raped as an adult, said she had been urged by senior congregation members, known as elders, to face her rapist at a private hearing, leaving her “completely traumatised” and leading to the breakup of her marriage.

    A spokesman for the Jehovah’s Witnesses said last year: “We are in no position to, and neither would we wish to, force any victim of abuse to confront their attacker.”

    Thomas Beale, of AO Advocates, who last year won a civil case that found the Jehovah’s Witnesses had failed to protect a woman from sexual abuse that began when she was four, said the commission’s decision to drop its production order could allow the charity to withhold further information.

    “Of course we welcome the ongoing statutory inquiry into Jehovah’s Witnesses’ safeguarding policies and look forward to reviewing its findings,” he said.

    “However, given our experience with Jehovah’s Witnesses in litigation, we struggle to see how a thorough and robust investigation can occur now that the Charity Commission has decided to revoke its production order. We think the chance of full disclosure now by the Jehovah’s Witnesses is very small.”

    The organisation has faced similar claims overseas. Last year an inquiry in Australia found the organisation failed to protect children from sexual abuse, and that its weak internal procedures left abusers at large. Similar claims have emerged in Canada.

    A spokesman for the Jehovah’s Witnesses told the Guardian last year: “Congregation elders do not discourage [reports to the authorities] or shield abusers from the authorities or from the consequences of their actions.”

    Fay Maxted, the chief executive of the Survivors Trust, said the WTBTS should apologise to those affected for the “appalling delays” caused by its litigation.

    “Faith groups need to really take on board the huge damage and pain caused to victims and survivors when appeal after appeal is pursued in an attempt to prevent them from having to share information,” she said. “It is very difficult in such circumstances to believe that the best interests of the victim or survivor are in any way being considered.”

    Maxted said she hoped the decision to share information with the commission signalled a change in their approach to the needs of victims and survivors.
  2. SubscriberSuzianne
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    24 Feb '17 20:09
    Originally posted by divegeester
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/23/jehovahs-witnesses-charity-drops-attempts-to-block-abuse-inquiry

    Finally some progress, but only after bitter resistance from the self proclaimed "sole holders of god's truth on earth"

    Jan 23rd 2017, Article begins:
    The UK’s main Jehovah’s Witnesses charity has dropped efforts to block an investigation ...[text shortened]... with the commission signalled a change in their approach to the needs of victims and survivors.
    I wouldn't mind hearing the opinions on this of the American branch.

    Probably not forthcoming, though.
  3. Joined
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    24 Feb '17 23:42
    A spokesman for the Jehovah’s Witnesses said last year: “We are in no position to, and neither would we wish to, force any victim of abuse to confront their attacker.”

    A spokesman for the Jehovah’s Witnesses told the Guardian last year: “Congregation elders do not discourage [reports to the authorities] or shield abusers from the authorities or from the consequences of their actions.”

    OK. Trying to get as much info as I can from a personal source who is my father, an elder for over 40 years and who has been involved in a couple cases such as this which are horrible for the victims and horrible to be involved in as an elder because of the hurt and damage for all because sometimes the abuser is a personal friend of an elder or an elders family member. And many time the abuser is a family member of the victim.
    First he said for us all and this is important: We do not know all the facts or the people involved. When emotions are running high, facts sometimes get blurred or exaggerated. That is a fact in almost every case like this and even a fact the legal investigators acknowledge.
    He said as long as he's been an elder the WTS it has been firm on the point that they would never tell or encourage anyone ever to not go to the police, especially if the victim wants to do that and even more so if the abuse is still going on.
    Civil laws have been broke and if they want to seek police involvement
    ( sometimes they don't ) it is up to them. If there is fear of retribution on the part from the abuser, the elders are required to report it at least in this country to the police. He does not know the laws in other countries.
    He commented also that the elders have to report anything like this to the WTS at once. So nothing is withheld on that level.

    So from what I'm reading it is claimed that the elders possibly did or advised certain things to the victims who felt should never have happened. Again we as outsiders do not know the facts or what was said behind closed doors. Maybe the wrong things were said, we don't know.
    No matter what I hope the victims eventually find peace and can move onto a happier life.
  4. Standard memberRajk999
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    24 Feb '17 23:48
    Originally posted by galveston75
    A spokesman for the Jehovah’s Witnesses.. .
    Dan_4:17 .. the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

    The JWs are not exempt from evil and base leadership and elders
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    24 Feb '17 23:522 edits
    Another divegeester witness hate thread, gee how predictable. I wonder why he never mentions any other organisation, religious bigotry probably, oh well. Neeeeeext.
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    24 Feb '17 23:53
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Dan_4:17 .. the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

    The JWs are not exempt from evil and base leadership and elders
    No we're not. As long as all humans are imperfect, mistakes will rule us all.
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    24 Feb '17 23:54
    Again none of us are there and directly involved. Mistakes can be made on both sides.
  8. SubscriberFMF
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    24 Feb '17 23:591 edit
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Another divegeester witness hate thread, gee how predictable. I wonder why he never mentions any other organisation, religious bigotry probably, oh well. Neeeeeext.
    Would you dismiss the content of the Guardian article, which is all that the thread's OP contains, as "hate"?
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    25 Feb '17 03:021 edit
    Originally posted by galveston75
    A spokesman for the Jehovah’s Witnesses said last year: “We are in no position to, and neither would we wish to, force any victim of abuse to confront their attacker.”

    A spokesman for the Jehovah’s Witnesses told the Guardian last year: “Congregation elders do not discourage [reports to the authorities] or shield abusers from the authorities or from ...[text shortened]... now.
    No matter what I hope the victims eventually find peace and can move onto a happier life.
    While you and your father may hold to certain opinion, the fact is that the Watchtower has, for two years, been trying to legally block a bona fide investigation into the reporting practices of your religious organisation. Hardly a "mistake".

    You also may have missed other other threads on this topic in the last 18 months.
  10. Joined
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    25 Feb '17 03:081 edit
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Again none of us are there and directly involved. Mistakes can be made on both sides.
    Despite Robbie Carrobie's repeated pleas of persecution and hatred when threads about the subject of child sexual abuse in the Jehovah's Witness church and the covering up of it by the leadership, occasionally crop up, this is not personal. What can make it personal to you, is a failure by him, youself and roigam to objectify address the facts.
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    25 Feb '17 05:03
    Originally posted by divegeester
    While you and your father may hold to certain opinion, the fact is that the Watchtower has, for two years, been trying to legally block a bona fide investigation into the reporting practices of your religious organisation. Hardly a "mistake".

    You also may have missed other other threads on this topic in the last 18 months.
    I guess you have been to some of the meetings that he has been to and can speak from experience on this issue and it's complexities? To correct you in case you missed it, this is not an opinion of my father. Re read it again as I'm not going to repeat it. From the experience he has had with the things, seen, discussed and all the possible angles that come with this issue, you have nothing to stand on here my friend.

    " practices " Really? Are you for real? Such a stupid comment to make as it is not true on any level.
  12. Joined
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    25 Feb '17 05:05
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Despite Robbie Carrobie's repeated pleas of persecution and hatred when threads about the subject of child sexual abuse in the Jehovah's Witness church and the covering up of it by the leadership, occasionally crop up, this is not personal. What can make it personal to you, is a failure by him, youself and roigam to objectify address the facts.
    The subject is horrible. You reporting it is your business. Your follow ups are as horrible in your misstating the facts that (((((((((((you know nothing about)))))))))))))))......
  13. Joined
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    25 Feb '17 05:07
    Originally posted by galveston75
    ...you have nothing to stand on here my friend.
    Why don't you comment on the guardian article in my OP instead of getting personal?
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    25 Feb '17 05:09
    Originally posted by galveston75
    Your follow ups are as horrible in your misstating the facts that (((((((((((you know nothing about)))))))))))))))......
    Instead of attacking me and getting personal, why don't you comment on why the Watchtower organisation have for 2 been legally trying to prevent an investigation into their reporting of child sex abuse from with its leadership?
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    25 Feb '17 05:16
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Why don't you comment on the guardian article in my OP instead of getting personal?
    It's you and your uneducated comments that make it personal. The same ole dive dude has not yet grown up and learned to keep your mouth shut on most subjects that you don't have a clue of the realities of it.
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