1. Account suspended
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    04 Oct '09 11:39
    For those who are unacquainted with the problems facing Jehovahs Witnesses in Russia, this is a major and significant decision, in the nineteen fifties entire families were shipped off to the work camps in Siberia because they would not renounce their faith, many were subject to 're-education program, especially children', worship was stigmatised, the organisation infiltrated with KGB agents and informers and those found guilty of association were imprisoned or exiled. After the fall of the Berlin wall and the 'iron curtain' was lifted, it was amazing to find that rather than having diminished, there were now ten of thousands of persons professing to worship in this way, and today it continues to grow despite political persecution and persecution for Russian orthodox church. you can find on the official site a little video presentation of what took place in the former U.S.S.R and some of the problems that ordinary people were facing.

    http://www.jw-media.org/frames/090930.htm - legal decision

    http://www.jw-media.org/edu_videos/vcut_e.htm - video presentation
  2. Joined
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    04 Oct '09 11:55
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    For those who are unacquainted with the problems facing Jehovahs Witnesses in Russia, this is a major and significant decision, in the nineteen fifties entire families were shipped off to the work camps in Siberia because they would not renounce their faith, many were subject to 're-education program, especially children', worship was stigmatised, th ...[text shortened]... .htm - legal decision

    http://www.jw-media.org/edu_videos/vcut_e.htm - video presentation
    Are you a JW? Is that why you don't believe Jesus is the incarnation?

    You know, I was one too, in the beginning.
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    04 Oct '09 12:40
    Originally posted by josephw
    Are you a JW? Is that why you don't believe Jesus is the incarnation?

    You know, I was one too, in the beginning.
    lol, i am a human being, it is enough Joseph, i dont believe Jesus is the incarnation primarily because i do not think that it is Biblical nor can it be established Biblically, nor have i ever believed it even when i was into occultism.
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    04 Oct '09 12:58
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    For those who are unacquainted with the problems facing Jehovahs Witnesses in Russia, this is a major and significant decision, in the nineteen fifties entire families were shipped off to the work camps in Siberia because they would not renounce their faith, many were subject to 're-education program, especially children', worship was stigmatised, th ...[text shortened]... .htm - legal decision

    http://www.jw-media.org/edu_videos/vcut_e.htm - video presentation
    Is there evidence outside of the jw or western media that persecutions really exist today? This has implications of the totalitarianism that we know existed there at one time. I am curious to see for sure if conditions there are still the same old hat.
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    04 Oct '09 16:203 edits
    Originally posted by joe beyser
    Is there evidence outside of the jw or western media that persecutions really exist today? This has implications of the totalitarianism that we know existed there at one time. I am curious to see for sure if conditions there are still the same old hat.
    In your complete scepticism, the problem would seem to be getting someone you trusted, perhaps Amnesty, would you trust them?

    As for your use of totalitarianism, its rather sensationalistic which i doubt is justified considering that there is a governing body made up of different individuals from differing backgrounds, regardless of which ever hat you wish to wear, saying that, if you have any criticisms of the organisation, please refer them to the address given in the web sight that i posted, for i myself am uninterested in hearing them, for in each and every case that has been brought to my attention, there has been, as its basis, unfounded and unsubstantiated claims, oh, and downright lies. 🙂
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    04 Oct '09 16:57
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    In your complete scepticism, the problem would seem to be getting someone you trusted, perhaps Amnesty, would you trust them?

    As for your use of totalitarianism, its rather sensationalistic which i doubt is justified considering that there is a governing body made up of different individuals from differing backgrounds, regardless of which ever ...[text shortened]... there has been, as its basis, unfounded and unsubstantiated claims, oh, and downright lies. 🙂
    Scepticism runs high in the mind of Joe Beyser. Amnesty wont do either. I am interested in this for reasons other than spirituality. It seems we are somewhat cutoff from the Russian point of view and it would be interesting to me as to why. Totalitarianism was a word I chose for Russia not the jw s. But now that you mention it....🙂
  7. Pepperland
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    04 Oct '09 17:16
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    For those who are unacquainted with the problems facing Jehovahs Witnesses in Russia, this is a major and significant decision, in the nineteen fifties entire families were shipped off to the work camps in Siberia because they would not renounce their faith, many were subject to 're-education program, especially children', worship was stigmatised, th ...[text shortened]... .htm - legal decision

    http://www.jw-media.org/edu_videos/vcut_e.htm - video presentation
    who cares? they're JW anyway.
  8. SubscriberProper Knob
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    04 Oct '09 17:34
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    who cares? they're JW anyway.
    Lets substitute JW for Jews or Blacks and then we can see what a narrow minded, bigoted, retard you are.

    who cares? they're Jews anyway

    who cares? they're Black anyway
  9. Pepperland
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    04 Oct '09 17:40
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    Lets substitute JW for Jews or Blacks and then we can see what a narrow minded, bigoted, retard you are.

    who cares? they're Jews anyway

    who cares? they're Black anyway
    you can't possibly compare JWs to blacks or jews, which btw was a pretty pathetic move on your part.

    do you actually know what JWs believe? if anything the russians are being too kind to them.
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    04 Oct '09 18:00
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    you can't possibly compare JWs to blacks or jews, which btw was a pretty pathetic move on your part.

    do you actually know what JWs believe? if anything the russians are being too kind to them.
    So would you like us to be imprisoned, raped, murdered, etc, like the Germans tried to do with the Jews?
  11. SubscriberProper Knob
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    04 Oct '09 18:07
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    you can't possibly compare JWs to blacks or jews, which btw was a pretty pathetic move on your part.

    do you actually know what JWs believe? if anything the russians are being too kind to them.
    The Jews can be categorised by their beliefs, ie Judaism. The JW's can be categorised by their beliefs, i am missing something as to why i can't possibly compare them? What's pathetic here is your mental ability, or the drastic lack of it, to comprehend what i had stated.

    Yes i do know what the JW's believe. What's your point.

    So murdering and oppressing a group of people because of their beliefs is being too kind to them'?

    I'm looking forward to your justification of that statement.
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    04 Oct '09 18:18
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    The Jews can be categorised by their beliefs, ie Judaism. The JW's can be categorised by their beliefs, i am missing something as to why i can't possibly compare them? What's pathetic here is your mental ability, or the drastic lack of it, to comprehend what i had stated.

    Yes i do know what the JW's believe. What's your point.

    So murdering and oppr ...[text shortened]... g too kind to them'?[/i]

    I'm looking forward to your justification of that statement.
    I dare say the Jews have received far more persecution over the centuries than JW's. There really is no comparison. In fact, I started a thread a while back about it. Compared to other persecuted groups of people, there is no equal.
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    04 Oct '09 18:24
    Originally posted by whodey
    I dare say the Jews have received far more persecution over the centuries than JW's. There really is no comparison. In fact, I started a thread a while back about it. Compared to other persecuted groups of people, there is no equal.
    I agree with the point on the Jews. But do a little worldwide comparison with other religions especially in more modern times.
  14. SubscriberProper Knob
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    04 Oct '09 19:12
    Originally posted by whodey
    I dare say the Jews have received far more persecution over the centuries than JW's. There really is no comparison. In fact, I started a thread a while back about it. Compared to other persecuted groups of people, there is no equal.
    whodey, youve missed my point completely. I wasn't suggesting the JW's have been persecuted more than the Jews. Merely asking generalissimo why the persecution of the JW's is somehow jusified or to quote the retard -

    if anything the russians are being too kind to them.

    Murder and persecution is somehow too kind? And the guy claims to be a Christian. I'm no theologian, but i know the Bible says 'thou shalt not kill'.

    Somehow the comparison of the Jews and JW's being killed and persecuted because of their religious beliefs is pathetic. I'm not sure why, but i'm looking forward to how he attempts to justify murder.
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    04 Oct '09 20:55
    Originally posted by Proper Knob
    The Jews can be categorised by their beliefs, ie Judaism. The JW's can be categorised by their beliefs, i am missing something as to why i can't possibly compare them? What's pathetic here is your mental ability, or the drastic lack of it, to comprehend what i had stated.

    Yes i do know what the JW's believe. What's your point.

    So murdering and oppr ...[text shortened]... g too kind to them'?[/i]

    I'm looking forward to your justification of that statement.
    thankyou Noobster, it feels that the battle against ignorance and imbecility continues relentlessly while such attitudes persist, but what are we to expect from those devoid of reason?
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