Legal victory in Russia, at last

Originally posted by TerrierJack
Why condemn it? Isn't that doing something? Why should I care that JWs are being persecuted? Why would even lift my finger to sign a petition let alone engage my vocal chords (or my fingers) to condemn it? It will all work out in the end - won't it? What can the past possibly teach me? Doesn't the bible answer every question? What could I possibly l ...[text shortened]... If god doesn't want them to be persecuted then he should do something about it. Why ask me?

because you are a human being like me and thus embroiled in humanity and have opinion that is equally as valid as the next man and beacuse as Agerg correctly states,

'This is a position of complete astonishment even from someone who is strongly averse to religion in it's many guises'

we are human beings Jack, can i do anything about the injustice of wounded knee? can i ? do i care about it, you bet your life. can i do anything about the holocaust, can I? do i care about it, you bet your life i care about it, because we are human beings that is why.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
because you are a human being like me and thus embroiled in humanity and have opinion that is equally as valid as the next man and beacuse as Agerg correctly states,

'This is a position of complete astonishment even from someone who is strongly averse to religion in it's many guises'

I was astonished that you wouldn't sign a petition to save the earth (regardless of whether it would or not.) I was astonished that you spoke out against doing anything to prevent the destruction of the planet or the people on it. I am astonished that now you want me to speak out for russian JWs but you said earlier I shouldn't do a thing to help my grand-kids survive because it didn't matter, god would take care of it. Does god take care of everything except russian JWs? Are they my responsibility but the rest of humanity isn't?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
maybe you misheard them, perhaps they were shouting, 'wow that was a really cool door bell, or 'were not here to sell', 'or the flowers in your garden look lovely and really smell'

no, Im pretty sure they said I was going to hell, all because I said I didn't want them to come back again.

Originally posted by TerrierJack
I was astonished that you wouldn't sign a petition to save the earth (regardless of whether it would or not.) I was astonished that you spoke out against doing anything to prevent the destruction of the planet or the people on it. I am astonished that now you want me to speak out for russian JWs but you said earlier I shouldn't do a thing to help my gra f everything except russian JWs? Are they my responsibility but the rest of humanity isn't?

i did not sign the petition because it was political, i am a-political, not because i do not care about the earth, or try to do what is justifiably possible to save it. For example i have introduced led (light emitting diodes) spotlights in my home, with a rating of 3 watts each, i am in the process of installing a inset log burning stove, because i realise that wood is a carbon neutral fuel, where the recycling of metals and plastics exists i utilise it. i have tried on several occasions to purchase an electric vehicle, and i wish we had the resources in the u.k. to convert, i would not hesitate for a minute. if i need to take a short ride, i bike it, rather than take the car, if i could get away with not driving i would, you getting the picture Jack, simply because i believe that ultimately earth's problems shall be solved through divine intervention, does not mean that i dont care or am not prepared to do what i can.

Incidentally my father has built a wind turbine, but because of planning regulations at the moment its difficult to install these things, hopefully in the future it may change. 🙂

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i did not sign the petition because it was political, i am a-political, not because i do not care about the earth, or try to do what is justifiably possible to save it. For example i have introduced led (light emitting diodes) spotlights in my home, with a rating of 3 watts each, i am in the process of installing a inset log burning stove, because i at the moment its difficult to install these things, hopefully in the future it may change. 🙂

Sorry - that doesn't cut this with me - what is more political than complaining about someone's treatment at the hands of a government? When people tell me they are apolitical I take that to mean they are only interested in their political problems. You can't be half-political - it is like being half-pregnant. Either you are a responsible citizen (and therefore involved politically) or you are the problem. If all of us were involved, the ability of these despots to single out individuals or groups for persecution would be greatly curtailed. General silence is the lubrication for the engines of oppression. Your oppressors love your apolitical stance. They depend on it. When they do come for you, will someone outside of your group hear your screams? Why should they if you didn't hear the least?

Originally posted by TerrierJack
Sorry - that doesn't cut this with me - what is more political than complaining about someone's treatment at the hands of a government? When people tell me they are apolitical I take that to mean they are only interested in their political problems. You can't be half-political - it is like being half-pregnant. Either you are a responsible citizen (and ...[text shortened]... meone outside of your group hear your screams? Why should they if you didn't hear the least?

whether it cuts with you or not Jack is your business, i have shown you, how on an individual basis i through the exercise of my own conscience am trying to do what i can. What are we as humans to do, thank the governments for the exile and the persecution, well thank you indeed, if it were not for you, we would never have gotten to Siberia, my goodness Jack, it was a simple statement of fact, with no political agenda. I have never voted in the political arena, nor will i, for it is self evident that politicians are self serving, period.

As for you assertions of whether anyone shall hear my screams, well the actions of 'my group', are clearly documented in the United States National Holocaust Museum, a fact of which i am proud, and why shouldn't i be? for when the rest of mankind was engulfed in war, rather than take up arms against another human, something for which it is not lawful for us to do, on the basis of the sanctity of life, it matters not, for it is before our God that we stand or fall, and believe me, we have full confidence that he hears.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
whether it cuts with you or not Jack is your business, i have shown you, how on an individual basis i through the exercise of my own conscience am trying to do what i can. I have never voted in the political arena, nor will i, for it is self evident that politicinas are self serving, period.

As for you assertions of whether anyone shall hear my ...[text shortened]... before our God that we stand or fall, and believe me, we have full confidence that he hears.

So why should you ask me to worry about your brothers in russia? Why should you worry about them? Isn't that just your business (or theirs?) Or is it just god's business and doesn't concern the rest of us? It could be that if the rest of us weren't so self-serving the politicians wouldn't be either. It could be that if I thought those JWs in russia were my brothers I would care about them. I know I'd really hate to see you oppressed, brother.

Originally posted by TerrierJack
So why should you ask me to worry about your brothers in russia? Why should you worry about them? Isn't that just your business (or theirs?) Or is it just god's business and doesn't concern the rest of us? It could be that if the rest of us weren't so self-serving the politicians wouldn't be either. It could be that if I thought those JWs in russia were ...[text shortened]... y brothers I would care about them. I know I'd really hate to see you oppressed, brother.

because it concerns humanity Jack, that's the point that Agerg was making, regardless of whether these people are our brothers or we share an affinity through some other affiliation, these things have some bearing on humanity, at least i think so.

My issue would be first it's JW's then Jews then people of different colors then anyone who disagrees or is a threat. Send them to Siberia! Or just kill em.







Manny

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
because it concerns humanity Jack, that's the point that Agerg was making, regardless of whether these people are our brothers or we share an affinity through some other affiliation, these things have some bearing on humanity, at least i think so.

And the big rock doesn't?

I agree with R.C. on the earth issue. I think it would be cool to be able to be self sufficient though. Solar & wind power get off the power grid would be awesome. I'm just not into tree hugging per se. I live in King county Home of the tree hugger! I think it would be nice to preserve the earth for our grandkids but there has to be balance. When the Government is telling you what trees you can cut and what you can build on your own property that is a problem.



Manny

Originally posted by menace71
I agree with R.C. on the earth issue. I think it would be cool to be able to be self sufficient though. Solar & wind power get off the power grid would be awesome. I'm just not into tree hugging per se. I live in King county Home of the tree hugger! I think it would be nice to preserve the earth for our grandkids but there has to be balance. When the Govern ...[text shortened]... trees you can cut and what you can build on your own property that is a problem.



Manny

True but we'll all be dead within a 100 years anyways, so the main thing is to try to get to Heaven

Originally posted by daniel58
True but we'll all be dead within a 100 years anyways, so the main thing is to try to get to Heaven

I think I disagree with you slightly. We are here to help our fellow man first. Paul said to die is gain but to live is Christ!








Manny

Originally posted by menace71
I think I disagree with you slightly. We are here to help our fellow man first. Paul said to die is gain but to live is Christ!








Manny

Sounds right to me, I didn't say I disagreed with you.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
lol, i am a human being, it is enough Joseph, i dont believe Jesus is the incarnation primarily because i do not think that it is Biblical nor can it be established Biblically, nor have i ever believed it even when i was into occultism.

One of these days rc, one of these days!