Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
Ok; I appreciate you answering the question 🙂

-so it isn’t this that you have issue with.

You don't read my posts I guess, you just ask yes or no questions and fill in the
blanks of what you want my answers to mean.
Kelly

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Penguins were birds that could fly, they had to, because what's the point of a bird with a wing?

Penguins have now evolved to the point where they can't fly, but have become specialised swimmers instead. Half their life is on land, the other in the sea. They've evolved from flying, to swimming.

Okay
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
Okay
Kelly

How about cetaceans ie. whales, dolphins, porpoises.

Do you think they evolved from land based mammals?

Originally posted by twhitehead
And Natural Selection weeds them out. That is how evolution works.

The problem is you cannot maintain your argument yet simultaneously accept that all dog breeds are related. If your argument was valid, the range of dog breeds we see would not be possible.

The standard YEC explanation - they are all differently degenerated canines. They are related, but dogs and cats are not.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
How about cetaceans ie. whales, dolphins, porpoises.

Do you think they evolved from land based mammals?

no

Originally posted by KellyJay
no

We have found the limit to what you think can evolve.

If you can accept that a bird can evolve to the point where it can't fly, and is now beautifully adapted to swimming in water, a la the penguin. Why can't you accept that a land based mammal can adapt to life in the water.

Take seals for instance, like penguins their life is spent in the water and on land. Why can't they have evolved from land based mammals?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Take seals for instance, like penguins their life is spent in the water and on land. Why can't they have evolved from land based mammals?

And interestingly enough, they are remarkably like dogs. They even bark.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
We have found the limit to what you think can evolve.

If you can accept that a bird can evolve to the point where it can't fly, and is now beautifully adapted to swimming in water, a la the penguin. Why can't you accept that a land based mammal can adapt to life in the water.

Take seals for instance, like penguins their life is spent in the water and on land. Why can't they have evolved from land based mammals?

I said it was easier to lose an ability than to gain one, losing the ability to fly
would not be acquiring a new feature it would be mutation where features were
lost. Great leaps or changes where new abilities or features are added I have an
issue with.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I said it was easier to lose an ability than to gain one, losing the ability to fly
would not be acquiring a new feature it would be mutation where features were
lost. Great leaps or changes where new abilities or features are added I have an
issue with.
Kelly

What ability has the seal gained that the penguin hasn't?

You do know I hope that both have quite specialized adaptations to life in the water?

I have an issue with what you define as a great leap or change. You are very vague about what that constitutes. Surely huskies, that have adapted to live in arctic conditions, are just as great a leap as birds or mammals that have chosen to live in the water? How do you measure the adaptation?

Originally posted by twhitehead
What ability has the seal gained that the penguin hasn't?

You do know I hope that both have quite specialized adaptations to life in the water?

I have an issue with what you define as a great leap or change. You are very vague about what that constitutes. Surely huskies, that have adapted to live in arctic conditions, are just as great a leap as birds or mammals that have chosen to live in the water? How do you measure the adaptation?

I don't know you tell me what it was before it turned into what it is now?
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
I don't know you tell me what it was before it turned into what it is now?
Kelly

I am not sure which animal you are talking about.

Penguins have many adaptations to water including specialized feathers, webbed feet, the ability to hold their breath for long periods, etc. There are a number of species of penguin and some have adapted to life in very cold climates.
Their whole body shape adapted to swimming rather than flying.
Their bones are much denser than flying birds, to stop them from floating to the surface to easily.
Most penguins also slow their heart rate when diving.

Seals have a similar list of adaptations.

Yet penguins are remarkably similar to other birds, and seals are remarkably similar to dogs. And these similarities are not just in appearance and behavior but also in the DNA.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I said it was easier to lose an ability than to gain one, losing the ability to fly
would not be acquiring a new feature it would be mutation where features were
lost. Great leaps or changes where new abilities or features are added I have an
issue with.
Kelly

This is all a little vague. I'll rephrase it for you.

A penguin has adapted to life in the water from a bird that could fly. A seal has adapted to life in the water from a mammal that lived on land. If you can accept one, why can't you accept the other?

twhitehead has a nice list of adaptations that both animals have gone through above, maybe you could specify why these adaptations can happen in the penguin but not in the seal.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
This is all a little vague. I'll rephrase it for you.

A penguin has adapted to life in the water from a bird that could fly. A seal has adapted to life in the water from a mammal that lived on land. If you can accept one, why can't you accept the other?

twhitehead has a nice list of adaptations that both animals have gone through above, maybe you could specify why these adaptations can happen in the penguin but not in the seal.

A penguin could have come from creature that could fly that was as far as I was
going, for all I know it always hung out in the water. I maintain it is easy to lose
an ability or feature or form than it is to aquire new ones.
Kelly

Originally posted by twhitehead
I am not sure which animal you are talking about.

Penguins have many adaptations to water including specialized feathers, webbed feet, the ability to hold their breath for long periods, etc. There are a number of species of penguin and some have adapted to life in very cold climates.
Their whole body shape adapted to swimming rather than flying.
Thei ...[text shortened]... lar to dogs. And these similarities are not just in appearance and behavior but also in the DNA.

Since all life uses DNA I can only imagine that a lot of it will have similarities.
Kelly

Originally posted by KellyJay
A penguin could have come from creature that could fly that was as far as I was
going, for all I know it always hung out in the water. I maintain it is easy to lose
an ability or feature or form than it is to aquire new ones.
Kelly

But you focus on very specific abilities and ignore all others.
It has already been pointed out that penguins and seal have many very special adaptations to life in the water. Yet you focus on loss of flight. There is nothing more specialized about flight than there is about swimming.