Originally posted by daniel58The bibles cool . I certainly cant believe all of it, especially not literally.
Deity; the creator and supreme being (in a monotheistic religion such as Christianity).
Yes don't you Believe in the Bible.
I have been more moved by other religous books though. That is not say the bible hasn't played its part in shaping the spirituality of the world.
Originally posted by daniel58According to the Bible, Jesus and Moses were alike.
Then there would have to be more than one God.
For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me. ACT 3:22 TO 26
Moses knew God face to face.
And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face, DEU 34:11
And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream. 12:7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. 12:8 With him will I speak face to face, even apparently, and not in dark speeches. NUM 12:6,7,8
Look at how Jesus and Moses both say the same things about themselves.
And Moses said, Hereby ye shall know that the LORD hath sent me to do all these works; for I have not done them of mine own mind. NUM 16:28
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. JOHN 14:10
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. JOHN 5:30
Let's be fair, guys. It is natural for us to want to exalt the Jesus we love to the highest places, but let's not get carried away. Jesus was a Manifestation of God, like Moses, like Buddha, like Krishna. When Jesus said no one goes to the father except through him, it was because He was the messenger for the time. People were worshipping idols, so He said I am the only way. Don't get so litteral.
Originally posted by Varqa==============================
According to the Bible, Jesus and Moses were alike.
For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me. ACT 3:22 TO 26
Moses knew God face to face.
And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face, DEU 34:11
And he said, Hear now my ...[text shortened]... the time. People were worshipping idols, so He said I am the only way. Don't get so litteral.
Let's be fair, guys. It is natural for us to want to exalt the Jesus we love to the highest places, but let's not get carried away.
===============================
I don't think it is "natural" that we exalt Jesus. I think what was more natural was that the people crucified Him because He was so absolute for the will of the Father, unwavering in truth and righteousness. He would not allow them to take Him by force to make Him a king in John 6:15.
Do you take literally that Moses and Elijah appeared to Christ on the Mount of Transfiguration? It is evident that the Father made the point that Christ overshadowed both Moses and Elijah and could not be put on the same level as the Beloved Son. They were to hear Him. They looked up and saw Jesus only. See Matthew 17:1-8.
=================================
Jesus was a Manifestation of God, like Moses, like Buddha, like Krishna. When Jesus said no one goes to the father except through him, it was because He was the messenger for the time. People were worshipping idols, so He said I am the only way. Don't get so litteral.
====================================
Varga, you are taking the Bible literally to the point that you wish. Beyond that point you are telling us not to take it literally. This is not right.
Beyond the point that you wish to take the New Testmant literally we have a number of crucial points:
1.) Jesus teaches that He can come with His Father and make an abode with those who love Him.
"Jesus answered ad said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him." (John 14:23)
I don't think any teacher ever said anything like that, that he would come to his disciple and make an abode within him with God.
2.) The New Testament says that the name of Jesus is the highest name, not only in that age but also in the to follow that age:
" ... in Christ in raising Him from the dead and seating Him at His right hand in the heavenlies, far above all rule and authroity and power and lordship and every name that is named not only in this age but also in that which is to come." (Eph. 1:21)
3.) Jesus did teach that after Him One would come as "another Comforter" who would abide in the disciples forever, the Spirit of reality. But if you read very closely you will see that this Holy Spirit who will replace the physical presence of Jesus is just Jesus in another form. That is a "pneumatic" form in which He can enter into people all around the world throughout the rest of history:
"And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you forever, [even] the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know [Him]; but you know Him because He abides with you and shall be in you.
I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you." (John 14:16-18)
The "He" of verse 17, meaning the Spirit of reality, suddenly changes to the "I" of verse 18. The coming of the Spirit to abide in the disciples is Jesus in another form coming to them and not leaving them as orphans.
And His coming is not for a season or an age, but to remain for eternity:
"And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you forever."
4.) Christ says that His words are so permanent so as to be able to outlast the physical universe:
"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words shall by no means pass away." (Matt. 24:35)
5.) The New Testment asures us that Christ is the same then, now, and forever:
"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, [yes], even forever." (Heb. 13:8)
6.) At the end of the age it is Jesus that the people will see coming supernaturally on the clouds to the earth. Specifically the tribes in Israel will see Him descend:
"Behold, He comes with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the land will mourn over Him. Yes, amen.
I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, He who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty." (Rev. 1:7,8)
7.) His kingdom over the earth will last forever:
"And the seventh angel trumpeted; and there were loud voices in heaven saying, The kingdom of the world hjas become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever." (Rev. 11:15)
8.) It is through Jesus Christ and in the realm of Jesus Christ, that God can present human beings before Himself spotless, holy, without blemish and in love:
"Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love, predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will." (Eph. 1:4,5)
Varga, you are selective in what you want to take literally. These are only a few passages which you also should take literally.
Originally posted by VarqaJESUS IS GOD!!!
According to the Bible, Jesus and Moses were alike.
For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me. ACT 3:22 TO 26
Moses knew God face to face.
And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face, DEU 34:11
And he said, Hear now my ...[text shortened]... the time. People were worshipping idols, so He said I am the only way. Don't get so litteral.
Originally posted by jaywillLike I said to daniel: its dangerous to think that Jesus is the only 'diety of God' .
[b]==============================
Let's be fair, guys. It is natural for us to want to exalt the Jesus we love to the highest places, but let's not get carried away.
===============================
I don't think it is "natural" that we exalt Jesus. I think what was more natural was that the people crucified Him because He was so absolute fo ...[text shortened]... e are only a few passages which you also should take literally.[/b]
Even if you are right and everybody else is wrong. Its still dangerous, you need to have a more flexible attitude, maybe like varga's.
So you back Jaywill? How was your time in the 'wilderness'? Any revelations?
Originally posted by jaywillI have argued these same points over and over with my Christian friends. I am running out of energy in my later years. I will just say that you must keep in mind the dual nature of the Manifestations of God. They are like a mirror that reflects God. They are God when they reflect God's attributes, and they are human when they are not. This has been the cause of much confusion.
[b]==============================
Let's be fair, guys. It is natural for us to want to exalt the Jesus we love to the highest places, but let's not get carried away.
===============================
I don't think it is "natural" that we exalt Jesus. I think what was more natural was that the people crucified Him because He was so absolute fo ...[text shortened]... e are only a few passages which you also should take literally.[/b]
Jesus reflecting God is the Alpha and the Omega.
Jesus' words, reflecting God's, shall never pass. Jesus IS the Word of God, and through the Word "let there be" the universe was created. Jesus the mirror had nothing to do with it.
As everyone here is trying to tell you, Jaywill, you must not be that rigid in your ideas. At least consider the possibilities.
I have a very hard time respecting a God that values a sincere prayer said in a church and disregards another sincere prayer said in a mosque or a temple. God is the Unknowable essence. If we think of him as Jesus, or a piece of wood is irrelevant, because both are inadequate substitutions for the Almighty. The objective is purity of heart.
4 edits
Originally posted by VarqaOh your name is varqa with a 'q'. So sorry , its just that underlining of your name that confused me.
I have argued these same points over and over with my Christian friends. I am running out of energy in my later years. I will just say that you must keep in mind the dual nature of the Manifestations of God. They are like a mirror that reflects God. They are God when they reflect God's attributes, and they are human when they are not. This has been the cause o cause both are inadequate substitutions for the Almighty. The objective is purity of heart.
What is more interesting is that Jaywill has resurected this thread after some 9-10 months.
And even more interesting that you have answered even though you haven't been spotted on this site for a while.
Do either of you expect to make any significant in-roads into our pagan beliefs? If so would you sort out your own contradictions before proceeding?
Man, I'm confused ! I cant find where Jaywill resurrected a post from
nearly a yesr ago whereas I could discern it just moments ago...Hmmm
oH,SO SORRY! I was referring to a different post . But Jaywill did ressurect a pretty old post did he not?
I'm lost now. Feel free to hurl me with your 'correections'. Oh please do! I'm a bit lost and any corrections may be taken as to my understanding of what has transpired.
Actually it was a different thread but I'm still intrigued! So you are back Jaywill?
Originally posted by karoly aczelThe "Deity of God" is 3 persons in One God, no others.
Like I said to daniel: its dangerous to think that Jesus is the only 'diety of God' .
Even if you are right and everybody else is wrong. Its still dangerous, you need to have a more flexible attitude, maybe like varga's.
So you back Jaywill? How was your time in the 'wilderness'? Any revelations?
Originally posted by karoly aczelI don't know why you are making references to my being "back".
Oh your name is varqa with a 'q'. So sorry , its just that underlining of your name that confused me.
What is more interesting is that Jaywill has resurected this thread after some 9-10 months.
And even more interesting that you have answered even though you haven't been spotted on this site for a while.
Do either of you expect to make any significa ...[text shortened]...
Actually it was a different thread but I'm still intrigued! So you are back Jaywill?
Did you imagine that I would never post again? I never said that.
About reviving old posts, there are hundreds of them. Actually there is little need for more and people start new ones too loosely.
Look through all the pages of titles. When you get to "Bigfoot on Mars" you know that you have reached to extremity of submissions of topics.
Originally posted by jaywillon the Jesus thread on the 15th of july: jaywill-'And I am finished reading you. I am finished writing to you.'
I don't know why you are making references to my being "back".
Did you imagine that I would never post again? I never said that.
About reviving old posts, there are hundreds of them. Actually there is little need for more and people start new ones too loosely.
Look through all the pages of titles. When you get to [b]"Bigfoot on Mars" you know that you have reached to extremity of submissions of topics.[/b]
I asked if it was all of us and you seemed to suggest that it was by your blank post.
So when you said you were 'finished' I thought you meant forever and not 6 days.
Anyway, sorry to be nit-picky , but its all there.
I dont think spirituality is limited to any number of submission of topics.'Bigfoot on Mars' is not the half of it. Truth is stranger than fiction.
🙂
Originally posted by karoly aczelNope,
on the Jesus thread on the 15th of july: jaywill-'And I am finished reading you. I am finished writing to you.'
I asked if it was all of us and you seemed to suggest that it was by your blank post.
So when you said you were 'finished' I thought you meant forever and not 6 days.
Anyway, sorry to be nit-picky , but its all there.
I dont think spiritua ...[text shortened]... on of topics.'Bigfoot on Mars' is not the half of it. Truth is stranger than fiction.
🙂
I meant I was finished talking to ThinkoOne the poster.
And I meant it.
He and I are through.