lucifer (light- bringer)

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Doesn't make sense.
I thought your god was in charge of punishment?

It makes perfect sense.

It's all about free will. You can listen to Satan and choose his side. But then you are doomed.

Originally posted by Suzianne
It makes perfect sense.

It's all about free will. You can listen to Satan and choose his side. But then you are doomed.

Free will doesn't, and cannot exist.

We are the product of the electro-chemical workings of our brains.
Our brains are the product of our genes and the environment we developed
and grew up in. None of which we had any choice over.
Their may well be some random rolling of the dice, but we never have any
free choice, or free will of the incompatibilist sort you are describing.

If your argument is based on this premise, that free will exists, then your
argument is unsound, and your conclusion invalid.

Originally posted by Suzianne
That's exactly what I said. There was war in Heaven, now there's not.

But I said read!

Look up some commentaries by your most respected and reliable Bible scholars and see what they say.

That war and Michael's "prevailing" against Satan and his angels occurs midway through the 70th week of Daniel. Check it out!

Originally posted by googlefudge
Free will doesn't, and cannot exist.

We are the product of the electro-chemical workings of our brains.
Our brains are the product of our genes and the environment we developed
and grew up in. None of which we had any choice over.
Their may well be some random rolling of the dice, but we never have any
free choice, or free will of the incompatib ...[text shortened]... is premise, that free will exists, then your
argument is unsound, and your conclusion invalid.

How did you decide to type out those words, exactly?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
How did you decide to type out those words, exactly?

If you go to a chat-bot on the web you can have a [pretty dumb] conversation
with it.
With time such programs have and will get better, someday soonish they will be
indistinguishable from a real person.

They don't have free will, they are simply the functions of the deterministic workings
of a computer program.


The fact that I selected these words as a response to your post does not in any way
demonstrate free will of the incompatibilitist sense.

The question of incompatibilitist free will is not about whether I can make a choice.
It's about whether I could have chosen OTHER than I did.
Could my mind when in the same initial state, and then exposed to the same stimuli
produce a different response. And moreover a different response that is due to a
concious choice and not the random rolling of metaphorical dice.


The truth is that I don't know how I chose these words, they just popped up into
my conciousness. Just as your words popped into your conciousness when you
composed your response.


Think of a capitol city.

Now tell me why the first city to pop into your head was the first to come to mind, and
not any of the other possible capital cities you know.

Explain how it was that you chose that city to be the first to come to mind.

Originally posted by googlefudge
If you go to a chat-bot on the web you can have a [pretty dumb] conversation
with it.
With time such programs have and will get better, someday soonish they will be
indistinguishable from a real person.

They don't have free will, they are simply the functions of the deterministic workings
of a computer program.


The fact that I selected the ...[text shortened]... cities you know.

Explain how it was that you chose that city to be the first to come to mind.

That argument of Sam Harris' has been destroyed already.
It's laughable that you still cling to something so patently, obviously wrong.

Now, it's your turn.
I demand a response from you.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
That argument of Sam Harris' has been destroyed already.
It's laughable that you still cling to something so patently, obviously wrong.

Now, it's your turn.
I demand a response from you.

does a person with a personality disorder have freewill? can a schizophrenic choose not to hear voices?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
That argument of Sam Harris' has been destroyed already.

Oh? Reference?

Originally posted by C Hess
Oh? Reference?

Last time it was brought up here.
Do your own homework, sonny.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
does a person with a personality disorder have freewill? can a schizophrenic choose not to hear voices?

That's like asking if a person who is color blind can distinguish color, i.e., it has nothing to do with the topic.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
That's like asking if a person who is color blind can distinguish color, i.e., it has nothing to do with the topic.

i think it does, can you be so kind as to answer the question?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
i think it does, can you be so kind as to answer the question?

Hearing a voice (paracusia), although not wide-spread, doesn't alter one important aspect: just because someone is talking to you doesn't mean you have to obey their commands.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Hearing a voice (paracusia), although not wide-spread, doesn't alter one important aspect: just because someone is talking to you doesn't mean you have to obey their commands.

do you think schizophrenics are in a position where they can freely choose to ignore the voices?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
do you think schizophrenics are in a position where they can freely choose to ignore the voices?

Are you suggesting a schizophrenic has no options?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Are you suggesting a schizophrenic has no options?

i dont believe in freewill.

do you think a schizophrenic can freely choose to ignore the voices?