lucifer (light- bringer)

Originally posted by stellspalfie
does a person with a personality disorder have freewill? can a schizophrenic choose not to hear voices?

good point stell

Originally posted by caissad4
So Satan must not have read your holy, holy book ?? Obviously Satan knows this god character much better than any humans. Hmmm, I wonder just what he knows that could influence such self-destructive behavior.

"I wonder just what he knows that could influence such self-destructive behavior."

He knows what you know. That he will do whatever it takes not to bend the knee even to the point of death.

God defines the terms of the agreement. Humble yourself before your maker, accept the terms required of you, and live, forever! All you need to do is to believe God, trust in what His Son did on the cross on your behalf, and receive the gift of eternal life.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
The outcome is known? Unchangeable?

No need for anyone to do anything then.

No need to do anything is right! Just believe and trust, and recieve the gift of eternal life.

Obviously Satan doesn't want it, and even if he did it's too late for him. All the angles that chose to follow Satan were present before God when they rebelled. There is no forgiveness for them. No opportunity to repent. They are doomed.

But now is YOUR chance. Now is your opportunity to accept forgiveness for
your sins.

Easy isn't it? Just a simple act of faith in what Jesus did on the cross on your behalf and you have eternal life.

Originally posted by josephw
No need to do anything is right! Just believe and trust, and recieve the gift of eternal life.

Obviously Satan doesn't want it, and even if he did it's too late for him. All the angles that chose to follow Satan were present before God when they rebelled. There is no forgiveness for them. No opportunity to repent. They are doomed.

But now is YOUR chan ...[text shortened]... t a simple act of faith in what Jesus did on the cross on your behalf and you have eternal life.

But now is YOUR chance. Now is your opportunity to accept forgiveness for
your sins.

I didn't get any responses to this last time, but I think this is absolutely relevant and
salient.

When I hear people talking about original sin, and how babies are born corrupt...

This is what I hear... [It's a long article, but is well written and says what
I want to say, but have never managed to articulate as well as I would
have liked.]

.... Every Christian Calvinist—and there are many—believes that people are born inherently depraved and worthy of damnation, torture and death. Those Christians who don’t believe in original sin, still expect you to eventually come of age, when you will begin acting like a human being, and end up in that same depraved and reprobate state. So, it’s a hair-splitting difference between denominations. The idea that this was being treated as newsworthy, then, was what made me most sad, because it meant that there must be a lot of people who don’t really understand that this is the lynch pin of Christian doctrine. Salvation would not be needed—Jesus would never have had to die—if you could somehow be worthy based upon your own good deeds, hard work, or merits. If you didn’t deserve death and eternal damnation, you wouldn’t need what Christianity is selling you. And seeing the furor around the TAE call, just made me painfully aware that people thought this caller was part of some extreme minority—rather than representative of the most necessary and standard Christian doctrine of “Salvation.”

I thought, “How can people not realize this, with the large majority of our population being part of this religion?” There were even other Christians posting in the comments at articles about this call, repeating what the caller had said, and defending it. In their effort to “clarify” what he was “trying” to express, they were simply re-wording the exact same views—that people are reprobate and deserve whatever horrors befall them in this life—and the next. ......

I recommend reading the whole thing.

This is the clip referred to in the article.

YouTube



I have nothing for which I need ask god for forgiveness.



EDIT: Of course it might help if I actually put in the link to the entire article... oops.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/axp/2014/04/28/when-the-internet-gives-you-lemons/

Originally posted by josephw
No need to do anything is right! Just believe and trust, and recieve...

I always experience that knee-jerk scepticism whenever someone opens a sentence like that.

Originally posted by josephw
No need to do anything is right! Just believe and trust, and recieve the gift of eternal life.

You agree with me that there is no need to do anything ....

..... then say "believe and trust"

What difference does that make? Your god sees the whole future .. it has
already "happened" for him. Surely nothing I can do to change that!!

Originally posted by caissad4
So Satan must not have read your holy, holy book ?? Obviously Satan knows this god character much better than any humans. Hmmm, I wonder just what he knows that could influence such self-destructive behavior.

His pride is self blinding.

A good example of self blinding pride is shown in the story of Moses. The Pharo (sp), even after all the crazy miracles, he still thinks he could win.

Originally posted by googlefudge
No what happened was you scoffed at it, provided no valid arguments, then insulted
everyone who held that position...

Although not necessarily in that order.


To 'destroy' this position requires actually demonstrating that it is wrong, which is
not something you, or anyone else here, has done.



If the argument is so easy to destroy you w ...[text shortened]... f... when you fail, you can then admit that maybe it's not quite so obviously wrong after
all.

Actually, you just proved my point.
Either I decided for you by my demand, or you decided for yourself, but either way, a will was involved.
It's really quite silly to think there's something else going on.
Those who espouse the preposterous idea that no choice is available are making choices to say a preposterous thing... and then try to support it.
Those who challenge the preposterous idea that no choice is available are making choices to challenge that preposterous thing.

Just to prove the point even further, stop responding to me.

Originally posted by googlefudge

But now is YOUR chance. Now is your opportunity to accept forgiveness for
your sins.

I didn't get any responses to this last time, but I think this is absolutely relevant and
salient.

[i]When I hear people talking about original sin, and how babies are born corrupt...

This is what I hear... [b][It's a long article, but is well ...[text shortened]... ticle... oops.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/axp/2014/04/28/when-the-internet-gives-you-lemons/

Calvin had to be one of the worst things to happen to Christianity, in my opinion.

Originally posted by RJHinds
In my opinion, Satan appears to be winning here on earth.

This is your finest 'Captain Obvious' moment.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
The outcome is known? Unchangeable?

No need for anyone to do anything then.

The obvious answer to this is yes, we can do something.

We can make the transition easier for our friends and relatives. Help each other get through the times ahead.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Free will doesn't, and cannot exist.

We are the product of the electro-chemical workings of our brains.
Our brains are the product of our genes and the environment we developed
and grew up in. None of which we had any choice over.
Their may well be some random rolling of the dice, but we never have any
free choice, or free will of the incompatib ...[text shortened]... is premise, that free will exists, then your
argument is unsound, and your conclusion invalid.

I don't know what you've been smoking, but your ignorance is shocking for someone who has knowledge. Your problem is that you lack wisdom.

I also don't use long, impressive-sounding words to describe others' ideas.

That you can actually sit here and claim that free will does not exist is amazing to me. But, I guess you need an excuse. I don't know about you, maybe you are a hive-mind-controlled automaton that the corporations wish we all were, but I make my own choices every single day. Including following God. Clearly, you are wrong.

Originally posted by Suzianne
I don't know what you've been smoking, but your ignorance is shocking for someone who has knowledge. Your problem is that you lack wisdom.

I also don't use long, impressive-sounding words to describe others' ideas.

That you can actually sit here and claim that free will does not exist is amazing to me. But, I guess you need an excuse. I don't know ...[text shortened]... , but I make my own choices every single day. Including following God. Clearly, you are wrong.

its not ignorant to not believe in freewill. its a conclusion based upon logic. you perceive that you have freewill because you retrospectively look back and think 'i could have made another choice'. but if you were to rewind time a million times, you would still make the same choice..........if googlefudge and myself are ignorant you need to explain why the rewinding of time will result in different decisions being made.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
its not ignorant to not believe in freewill. its a conclusion based upon logic. you perceive that you have freewill because you retrospectively look back and think 'i could have made another choice'. but if you were to rewind time a million times, you would still make the same choice..........if googlefudge and myself are ignorant you need to explain why the rewinding of time will result in different decisions being made.

You really don't need to go to such bizarre and unrealistic mind masturbation to see the thing for what it is.
All that is required is to think on this simple thought experiment:

1. "Are you going to respond to this post?"
2. If you are inclined to, don't.
3. If you are not inclined to, do.

The results of 2. or 3. prove your free will or lack thereof.
If you are a normal human being with control of your faculties, you will make a choice.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
You really don't need to go to such bizarre and unrealistic mind masturbation to see the thing for what it is.
All that is required is to think on this simple thought experiment:

1. "Are you going to respond to this post?"
2. If you are inclined to, don't.
3. If you are not inclined to, do.

The results of 2. or 3. prove your free will or lack thereof.
If you are a normal human being with control of your faculties, you will make a choice.

your thought experiment doesnt work. it doesn't prove that i am capable of choosing from the options. i may lonly be capable of option 3. if i rewind time will i ever choose anything other than 3?