Originally posted by @karoly-aczelYeah, I know. I tend to drop my queen against him when we play chess.
Very touching
Dont be lulled too much though, stay sharp
Originally posted by @thinkofoneWhy not have a go at answering that yourself? Go on, as a novelty.
You've been so magnanimous with MB .
What do you think can be reasonably concluded about Jesus' position on lying from those verses in John 7 ?
Alternatively, address the following:
My sister tells my mum, "Nah I'm not going to that party," but then it transpires she does go to the party in secret. (This actually happened, at least twice).
1. Did or did not my sister lie to our mother about attending the party?
2. How is this any different from Jesus saying he was not attending the feast, but then going anyway in secret?
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeIt's a pointless exercise. Based on what you posted earlier on this thread, seems likely that you understand this.
Why not have a go at answering that yourself? Go on, as a novelty.
Alternatively, address the following:
My sister tells my mum, "Nah I'm not going to that party," but then it transpires she does go to the party in secret. (This actually happened, at least twice).
1. Did or did not my sister lie to our mother about attending the party? ...[text shortened]... any different from Jesus saying he was not attending the feast, but then going anyway in secret?
Originally posted by @thinkofoneIndeed. Getting you to answer a straight question is a pointless exercise.
It's a pointless exercise. Based on what you posted earlier on this thread, seems likely that you understand this.
Here sir, have a toasted teacake. (Be suspicious of the currants).
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeWell, I've seen this act before from you. It's little different from that of FMJ / becker / Romans
Indeed. Getting you to answer a straight question is a pointless exercise.
Here sir, have a toasted teacake. (Be suspicious of the currants).
Originally posted by @thinkofoneLike I said earlier, try to come up with a better, more convincing way to dodge questions. This is just pathetic.
Well, I've seen this act before from you. It's little different from that of FMJ / becker / Romans
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeC'mon, if you would just think some more, you could read his mind and type the answer for him. 😵
Indeed. Getting you to answer a straight question is a pointless exercise.
Here sir, have a toasted teacake. (Be suspicious of the currants).
Originally posted by @bigdoggproblemYou're such a clever boy. Yes you are.
C'mon, if you would just think some more, you could read his mind and type the answer for him. 😵
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeBah... sisters... parties...
Why not have a go at answering that yourself? Go on, as a novelty.
Alternatively, address the following:
My sister tells my mum, "Nah I'm not going to that party," but then it transpires she does go to the party in secret. (This actually happened, at least twice).
1. Did or did not my sister lie to our mother about attending the party? ...[text shortened]... any different from Jesus saying he was not attending the feast, but then going anyway in secret?
What about she just changed her mind?
Calling that "lying" is kind of a stretch.
Originally posted by @suzianneAgree. Since lying is a willful misrepresentation of the truth, whether Ghost’s sister lied or not depends on whether she intended to go to the party when she told her mother she wasn’t going to go.
Bah... sisters... parties...
What about she just changed her mind?
Calling that "lying" is kind of a stretch.
If she didn’t intend to go when she told her mother that, she wasn’t lying and just changed her mind, as you said.
If she intended to go all along, she was lying.
The problem with transferring this logic to the Biblical account is Jesus had foreknowledge of future events, though we don’t know the extent of His foreknowledge after He was “made a little lower than the angels” to be both fully man and fully God while He was on earth.
He did have enough foreknowledge to speak on His crucifixion and Resurrection before they happened and also to accurately say that Peter would thrice deny he knew Jesus before the rooster crowed. (I’m sure there are other examples.) Ghost’s sister didn’t have foreknowledge of future events.
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeWhat translation are you using for these verses? I use the King James Version, which has the passage as follows:
A great contribution to the thread. To my mind, it has been aptly argued that lying is occasionally a necessity and a wise course of action,..and yes, at times even a moral obligation.
This being the case, would Jesus himself have considered certain lies as morally acceptable? (if they prevented harm being done to others etc). The classic example ...[text shortened]... ad gone up to the feast, then He Himself also went up, not publicly, but as it were, in secret."
“Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast: for my time is not yet full come.
When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee.
But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.
Then the Jews sought him at the feast, and said, Where is he?
And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him: for some said, He is a good man: others said, Nay; but he deceiveth the people.
Howbeit no man spake openly of him for fear of the Jews.
Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.
And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?
Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.”
(John 7:8-16)
The word “yet” is a key part of John 7:8 and makes Jesus’ comment true as His disciples went before Him.
I included the rest of the passage because it shows He was hardly hiding if He was teaching openly in the Temple.
Originally posted by @suzianneGood point, Suzi. Teens these days change their plans momentaneously. This generation is continuously texting, WhatsApping, linking-in, snapchatting, and so on. A teen can go out the door fully intending not to go to a certain party because she has heard from a girl friend that NN is or is not going to that party, and, thumbing busily at the smart phone, she and her alpha-girl clique decide to go to the disco; enroute in different buses and trams, the alpha-girls in real-time chatter-mode, like a flock of birds, execute a spontaneously-coordinated turn and divert to the cinema; while converging on the cinema, the alpha-girls, still virtually chattering in their various buses and trams, intercept a rumor that NN is NOT going (or v.v.) to the party, and they divert to the party after all. IPhones have replaced the day-planner by a moment-planner.
Bah... sisters... parties...
What about she just changed her mind?
Calling that "lying" is kind of a stretch.