1. Melbourne, Australia
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    02 Oct '12 07:49
    "Clearly the Christians have used ... myths ... in fabricating the story of Jesus' birth ... It is clear to me that the writings of the Christians are a lie and that your fables are not well-enough constructed to conceal this monstrous fiction.'
    – Celsus (On The True Doctrine, c178 AD)

    Celsus was one of the foremost thinkers of his age. His critique of the Christians was so damaging that Christians destroyed every copy of his work they could find."
    ******

    ‘There is nothing so easy as by sheer volubility to deceive a common crowd or an uneducated congregation.’

    – St. Jerome (Epistle to Nepotian, Lii, 8.)
    *******

    Would the partisans of Christ have set out deliberately to lie? Were they such barefaced charlatans that they concocted falsehoods and deceits merely to advance themselves and their designs? By their own admission, YES they were. They may well have been believers, in that they held to a certain faith. On this was built the fanaticism either to die, or to kill others, for that faith. But faith absolves the believer from any fidelity to objective truth.

    God's Truth – Lies

    Religious fantasy advances in small steps by which those who already ‘see a higher truth’ help the less gifted to achieve that sublime state by using various devices. In Jewish tradition, one such a device was ‘midrash’, the teasing out of new, contemporary meanings from antique, sacred texts. By such means, the scribes could resolve a current issue by interpreting what the scripture had ‘really meant’ all along. Was that a lie?

    False accreditation was another much used method, common practice during antiquity. Most of the texts in both the Hebrew bible and the New Testament were forged in the names of their authors to give them ‘authority.’ This merely helped others recognise 'the higher truths' presented to them. Who could argue with Solomon, say, or Apostles of the Lord?

    A Labyrinth of Deceit

    One of the most inveterate forms of imaginative creation was the invention of sayings and whole speeches which, just as fiction-writers do today, they put entire into the mouths of the personages of whom they were writing. Thus, in the Gospel of John, chapters 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17 are almost one continuous verbatim monologue – all three thousand six hundred words of it! – supposedly uttered by the godman, a truly remarkable instance of total recall by the fabled octogenarian author!

    More at:
    http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/lying.htm
  2. SubscriberSuzianne
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    02 Oct '12 14:23
    One wonders just what your motivations are in continually slamming Christianity the way you do. One also hopes that you don't inadvertently turn someone aside from Christianity who might otherwise forge ahead and choose Christianity.
  3. Melbourne, Australia
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    02 Oct '12 16:351 edit
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    One wonders just what your motivations are in continually slamming Christianity the way you do. One also hopes that you don't inadvertently turn someone aside from Christianity who might otherwise forge ahead and choose Christianity.
    I didn't used to. But something has whelmed up in me and I'm going with it.

    I think the FUNDAMENTALIST version of Christianity is very harmful, arrogant and lacks compassion to anyone who is not a co-fundamentalist of the same faith.
    Fundamentalists of any religion are destructive and tend to violence and irrationality of the worst sort.

    Fundamentalism is causing a great deal of harm in this world and needs to be confronted with some serious education, to hopefully bring some to serious reflection on their own insightless fundamentalism and hopefully prevent others from going down that destructive, highly guilt and dependency producing path.

    The separative damning attitude of fundamentalists is so totally at odds with the simple faith and teachings of whoever the man Jeshua was, before he was hyped up to a mythic godman for religio-political purposes. It actually would be quite laughable in its constant avoidance of reasoned facts, if it wasn't so destructive.

    That's why, Suzianne. Expect some more.
  4. SubscriberSuzianne
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    02 Oct '12 16:43
    Originally posted by Taoman
    That's why, Suzianne. Expect some more.
    You play with powers beyond your ken.

    You have made your choice. Pray that you do not multiply your sin by foisting that choice upon others.
  5. Standard memberAgerg
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    02 Oct '12 16:44
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    One wonders just what your motivations are in continually slamming Christianity the way you do. One also hopes that you don't inadvertently turn someone aside from Christianity who might otherwise forge ahead and choose Christianity.
    You make that sound like a bad thing! 😵
  6. SubscriberSuzianne
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    02 Oct '12 17:23
    Originally posted by Agerg
    You make that sound like a bad thing! 😵
    Book of John, Chapter 10, KJV

    1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

    2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

    3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

    4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

    5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

    6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

    7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

    8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

    9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

    10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

    11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

    12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

    13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

    14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

    15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

    16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

    17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

    18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

    19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.

    20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?

    21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?

    22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

    23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

    24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

    25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

    26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

    27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

    28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

    29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

    30 I and my Father are one.

    31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

    32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

    33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

    34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

    35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

    36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

    37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

    38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

    39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,

    40 And went away again beyond Jordan into the place where John at first baptized; and there he abode.

    41 And many resorted unto him, and said, John did no miracle: but all things that John spake of this man were true.

    42 And many believed on him there.
  7. Melbourne, Australia
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    02 Oct '12 17:261 edit
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    You play with powers beyond your ken.

    You have made your choice. Pray that you do not multiply your sin by foisting that choice upon others.
    Perfect example, constantly encountered, of trying to induce guilt and fear, based on a primitive and limited view of the all-embracing Source. Perhaps you could learn to embrace more too.

    I don't buy the guilt and fear and I hope others see through it.
    Increasing knowledge and wider view is not a "sin". I am not "foisting". We both have the freedom to choose. I choose reason and a wider view of spiritual realities.

    What about the established historical facts shared on the site i referred to?
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    02 Oct '12 17:27
    i suspect that when their prophet failed to return as promised, they had to forge on ahead in the wake of lies. there must be a pathology in there, where they began to believe their own lies. it would've taken a certain pathology to become the followers of christ in the first place, if such a person existed.
  9. Melbourne, Australia
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    02 Oct '12 17:37
    Originally posted by VoidSpirit
    i suspect that when their prophet failed to return as promised, they had to forge on ahead in the wake of lies. there must be a pathology in there, where they began to believe their own lies. it would've taken a certain pathology to become the followers of christ in the first place, if such a person existed.
    The religio-political impetus gave it the in for all those centuries. Very useful superstition. Propaganda mill, old style, fires of hell and all.. Its going to take a while, but truth can no longer be suppressed. Its historically ingrained unfortunately.
    The site is quite interesting and well done.
  10. Cape Town
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    02 Oct '12 17:41
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    You play with powers beyond your ken.

    You have made your choice. Pray that you do not multiply your sin by foisting that choice upon others.
    Making threats based on imaginary objects is a total waste of time. If you try it again, Thor will strike you down.
  11. SubscriberSuzianne
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    02 Oct '12 17:41
    Originally posted by Taoman

    Increasing knowledge and wider view is not a "sin". I am not "foisting". We both have the freedom to choose. I choose reason and a wider view of spiritual realities.
    4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

    5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

    Genesis 3:4-5, KJV
  12. Jo'Burg South Africa
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    02 Oct '12 20:06
    Originally posted by Taoman
    "Clearly the Christians have used ... myths ... in fabricating the story of Jesus' birth ... It is clear to me that the writings of the Christians are a lie and that your fables are not well-enough constructed to conceal this monstrous fiction.'
    – Celsus (On The True Doctrine, c178 AD)

    Celsus was one of the foremost thinkers of his age. His critique of th ...[text shortened]... y the fabled octogenarian author!

    More at:
    http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/lying.htm
    http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/lying.htm

    Wow, talking about fabricating lies you think the above link was not fabricated by fools for fools?
  13. Joined
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    03 Oct '12 01:201 edit
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

    5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

    Genesis 3:4-5, KJV
    and biblegod agreed. he kicked them out of the garden because if they ate from the tree of life and became immortal, they would be full gods. the trick of the serpent was to get them to eat from the tree of knowledge before eating from the tree of life.
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    03 Oct '12 01:31
    Originally posted by VoidSpirit
    and biblegod agreed. he kicked them out of the garden because if they ate from the tree of life and became immortal, they would be full gods. the trick of the serpent was to get them to eat from the tree of knowledge before eating from the tree of life.
    The trick of the serpent was to get Eve to doubt Gods word.
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    03 Oct '12 05:332 edits
    Originally posted by Taoman
    Perfect example, constantly encountered, of trying to induce guilt and fear, based on a primitive and limited view of the all-embracing Source. Perhaps you could learn to embrace more too.

    I don't buy the guilt and fear and I hope others see through it.
    Increasing knowledge and wider view is not a "sin". I am not "foisting". We both have the freedom to ...[text shortened]... realities.

    What about the established historical facts shared on the site i referred to?
    Taoman says, "I choose reason and a wider view of spiritual realities.

    Jesus says, “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it."

    (Matthew 7:13 NKJV)

    Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

    (John 14:6 NKJV)
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