Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
No one was "kick[ing] you".

I was merely pointing out the likely reason for your childish response to Z.

That you've followed it with another childish response is quite telling.

It was a "figure of speach" as it is called.

Originally posted by RJHinds
It was a "figure of speach" as it is called.

It's a "figure of speech". Double e not a.

Originally posted by RJHinds
It was a "figure of speach" as it is called.

Do you seriously believe anyone over the age of ten doesn't realize that it is a figure of speech?

Just try harder to not allow your pride to get the better of you.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
It's a "figure of speech". Double e not a.

Well at least you know how to spell it and, I suppose, what it is.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps is all you have to offer. You do
not want to deal with reality but perhaps what could be.
The fact is God created the heavens and earth and finely
tuned everything so we could live on it. No perhaps about it.

Well that's the difference between you and I, you want a "finely tuned" earth to be true to imply *your particular* goddidit. You don't have the integrity, intellect, or skepticism to validly rule out all the other possibilities that might stand in the way of this so-called "fine-tuned" hypothesis. Nor do you have enough about you to recognise that if...EVEN IF...our universe was fine tuned by some deity - it would not necessarliy be *your* notion of god (out of infinitely many other potential others plural or singular) that did it.

Originally posted by Agerg
A standard defense of the omni awesome god who remains inactive whilst people suffer all over the world is that we caused the problems and ought to sort it out ourselves - first of all this is no real defence of an omni god anyway; but given its claimed a child dies every 3 seconds I can only assume they are being made an example of if there exists an entity t ...[text shortened]... actually give a damn! - I'd have no problem, philosophically speaking, with that one.

Suffering is part of what it means to be human, this idea is universal amongst all faiths. To deny us the opportiunity to suffer and overcome would be to deny us of the experience of being human. What a boring and unchallenging world we would live in if all our problems were solved for us.

Psychologists have done extensive research into childhood developement. Parents who consitently solve the problems of their children actually cripple their development. If God were to solve all of our problems humanity would be like the developmentally crippled children, unable to care for ourselves. What parent wants that?

Sorry Agers, this tired argument has been successfully refuted by numerous posters in numerous threads. Your premis itself is flawed, for if God is (and I believe so) omni-benevolent, that does not necessitate intervention at the slightest suffering of humanity. In fact, not having omniscience we cannot see the final outcome of how everything plays out. Its hubris to think you can imagine a more perfect world than a being that is by definition perfection.

Originally posted by Doward
Suffering is part of what it means to be human, this idea is universal amongst all faiths. To deny us the opportiunity to suffer and overcome would be to deny us of the experience of being human. What a boring and unchallenging world we would live in if all our problems were solved for us.

Psychologists have done extensive research into childhood develope ...[text shortened]... ris to think you can imagine a more perfect world than a being that is by definition perfection.

"Suffering is part of what it means to be human, this idea is universal amongst all faiths. To deny us the opportiunity to suffer and overcome would be to deny us of the experience of being human. What a boring and unchallenging world we would live in if all our problems were solved for us."

I haven't seen an argument from you or any other theist that successfully deals with the really nasty cases for which "improvement" is a non-issue; for example the Jews who were massacred by the Nazis....what opportunities did *they* have to improve??? 😕
Oh yes I'm well aware you can point out a few cases where it is better that we struggle onwards but only one of us seems to be recognising the universality of the omni claim about god - it has to hold for all cases..not just the easy ones you like to talk about.

"Psychologists have done extensive research into childhood developement. Parents who consitently solve the problems of their children actually cripple their development. If God were to solve all of our problems humanity would be like the developmentally crippled children, unable to care for ourselves. What parent wants that?"

Again, I'm referring to the problems for which there is no opportunity to develop - and again you'll pick out easy cases as though they are sufficient to bear out the claim your god is the *bestest evah god you evah did know!*

"Sorry Agers, this tired argument has been successfully refuted by numerous posters in numerous threads. Your premis itself is flawed, for if God is (and I believe so) omni-benevolent, that does not necessitate intervention at the slightest suffering of humanity. In fact, not having omniscience we cannot see the final outcome of how everything plays out. Its hubris to think you can imagine a more perfect world than a being that is by definition perfection."

Well firstly it hasn't been refuted at all; standard apologetics only deals with simple examples and tries to erect a strawman in that you suppose we think God should be tying shoelaces for us - we are arguing nothing of the sort.

As for hubris, there is no hubris on my part to think:

[I] can imagine a more perfect world than a being that is by [unjustifiably defined by theists to be] perfection.

Since I don't accept your definition.

Originally posted by Agerg
"Suffering is part of what it means to be human, this idea is universal amongst all faiths. To deny us the opportiunity[b] to suffer and overcome would be to deny us of the experience of being human. What a boring and unchallenging world we would live in if all our problems were solved for us."

I haven't seen an argument from you or any other the ...[text shortened]... defined by theists to be] perfection.[/i]

Since I don't accept your definition.[/b]

What do you believe God did to you that makes you so bitter
toward HIM? Do you want HIM to just leave you alone and
not bother with you?

Originally posted by Agerg
"Suffering is part of what it means to be human, this idea is universal amongst all faiths. To deny us the opportiunity[b] to suffer and overcome would be to deny us of the experience of being human. What a boring and unchallenging world we would live in if all our problems were solved for us."

I haven't seen an argument from you or any other the ...[text shortened]... defined by theists to be] perfection.[/i]

Since I don't accept your definition.[/b]

I haven't seen an argument from you or any other theist that successfully deals with the really nasty cases for which "improvement" is a non-issue;

again...intellectual dishonesty and sloppy thinking on your part. Where exactly would God draw the line between self improvement and the nasty cases? the greater the trial the greater the opportunity for triumph, the concept is universal. It was an amazing triumph of humanity that Naziism (eastern and western) was defeated in WWII.

Nope sorry, if God interferes in one tragedy, then he will then be declared biased and unfair if he does not interfere with all tragedy. where does it stop, hangnails?

Originally posted by Doward
again...intellectual dishonesty and sloppy thinking on your part. Where exactly would God draw the line between self improvement and the nasty cases? the greater the trial the greater the opportunity for triumph, the concept is universal. It was an amazing triumph of humanity that Naziism (eastern and western) was defeated in WWII.

So it is your claim that every form of suffering is an opportunity for the sufferer to improve himself?

Nope sorry, if God interferes in one tragedy, then he will then be declared biased and unfair if he does not interfere with all tragedy. where does it stop, hangnails?
So God allows people to suffer because he is afraid of being asked for more, or being blamed for not doing more?
Do you too apply the same principles when helping others?

Or do you refrain from helping others as their suffering is clearly an opportunity for them to improve?

Originally posted by twhitehead
So it is your claim that every form of suffering is an opportunity for the sufferer to improve himself?

[b]Nope sorry, if God interferes in one tragedy, then he will then be declared biased and unfair if he does not interfere with all tragedy. where does it stop, hangnails?
So God allows people to suffer because he is afraid of being asked for mo ...[text shortened]... ou refrain from helping others as their suffering is clearly an opportunity for them to improve?[/b]

every suffering is an opportunity for humanity to improve themselves, think global act local. Think about more than yourself if thats possible.

So God allows people to suffer because he is afraid of being asked for more, or being blamed for not doing more?
Pretty sure that's not what I said, try reading it again and use that fat depost 2' above your buttocks for a little critical thinking.

Originally posted by Doward
every suffering is an opportunity for humanity to improve themselves, think global act local. Think about more than yourself if thats possible.

[b]So God allows people to suffer because he is afraid of being asked for more, or being blamed for not doing more?
Pretty sure that's not what I said, try reading it again and use that fat depost 2' above your buttocks for a little critical thinking.[/b]

Gotta love the 'Christian spirit' alive in the Spirituality forum.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Gotta love the 'Christian spirit' alive in the Spirituality forum.

gotta love argument by hyperbole, and the obtuseness of athiests

Originally posted by Doward
every suffering is an opportunity for humanity to improve themselves, think global act local. Think about more than yourself if thats possible.

I have thought about it, and I just cant see it. I don't believe every time I, or others have suffered are in some twisted way an opportunity for someone to better themselves.

Pretty sure that's not what I said, try reading it again and use that fat depost 2' above your buttocks for a little critical thinking.
Did you see the question mark? If it is not what you were saying, then please explain what you were saying rather than resorting to insults.

Originally posted by twhitehead
So it is your claim that every form of suffering is an opportunity for the sufferer to improve himself?

[b]Nope sorry, if God interferes in one tragedy, then he will then be declared biased and unfair if he does not interfere with all tragedy. where does it stop, hangnails?
So God allows people to suffer because he is afraid of being asked for mo ...[text shortened]... ou refrain from helping others as their suffering is clearly an opportunity for them to improve?[/b]

so you see, you can help others. have you thought that this is god's plan? to help each other rather than wait for a supernatural being who will solve all our problems? humanity as a whole can solve all the problems. in time.



god isn't a walking brace. at most he used to be an occasional stranger that would help you across the street in a particular busy intersection. now however, until further notice, we are supposed to cross the streets ourselves because we can. some will still get run over. but this is better than having all stuff taken care of and having nothing left to live for. a perfect world where nothing happens because god takes care of it.