Mankind didn't fall

@kellyjay said
You have shown yourself a liar in this discussion and are unable to back up your claims.

"Works alone is alive"
Justified by works.

Whatever... maybe you could give an opinion on this

So a man lived before Christ. he knows nothing about any God, at least no knowledge of the God of Israel. What in your opinion will happen to him on judgment day if he did good works and lived righteously?

What do you think?

@rajk999 said
Whatever... maybe you could give an opinion on this

So a man lived before Christ. he knows nothing about any God, at least no knowledge of the God of Israel. What in your opinion will happen to him on judgment day if he did good works and lived righteously?

What do you think?

Do the scriptures directly address this?

@josephw said
Exactly right. That's exactly what James meant when he penned the words "faith without works is dead".

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

So, what is Paul talking about when he uses the word "faith"?
Why does it appear that Paul contradicts James?

Because James and Paul are talking about two different things. ...[text shortened]... cation" is by faith alone.

"Rewards" are given for faithful service.

It's all just too simple.

What a load of church bull. Full of bible twisting and manipulation. Paul was also clear [as James was] that faith alone gives no salvation. Faith is a stepping stone to a life devoted to the teachings of Christ. Without obedience to the commandments and without a life a righteousness the saved born again Christian is cast out of the Kingdom of God. Churches have removed this teachings from their doctrines and twisted the bible and have concluded that good works are not a requirement for eternal life, when Jesus Christ said that it is.

@kellyjay said
Do the scriptures directly address this?

Yes, and it has been quoted to you before. Paul addressed it in Romans 2. If you can read, read it. Otherwise kindly stay out.

@rajk999 said
Yes, and it has been quoted to you before. Paul addressed it in Romans 2. If you can read, read it. Otherwise kindly stay out.

Quote it.

@rajk999 said
Yes, and it has been quoted to you before. Paul addressed it in Romans 2. If you can read, read it. Otherwise kindly stay out.

"Works alone is alive"
"Justified by works."

What is the next thing you are going to twist to make it mean something that the scriptures are not actually saying?

@kellyjay said
"Works alone is alive"
"Justified by works."

What is the next thing you are going to twist to make it mean something that the scriptures are not actually saying?

I heard you are a pastor. Save your preaching for them. Preaching is not welcome here. Here we discuss.

@rajk999 said
I heard you are a pastor. Save your preaching for them. Preaching is not welcome here. Here we discuss.

You can add that to the list of things you don't know and are wrong about; no, I'm not. You have been misrepresenting scripture, so should I consider this one more doctrine of yours you cannot give scriptural backing to show its true.

@rajk999 said
Saved means nothing in biblical language. Paul said that a woman is saved in childbearing. Does that mean that all women who bear children will get eternal life? I dont think Paul meant that. Saved is a vague expression.

Im asking is it your opinion that that man will get eternal life or is the man doomed to eternal torment?

lol... Yes! knowing God's love, I'm most certain that the man you presented here would receive eternal life; however, he is only receiving eternal life because of Jesus saving him and us.
[Romans 3:10 NKJV] 10 "As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one."

@kingdavid403 said
lol... Yes! knowing God's love, I'm most certain that the man you presented here would receive eternal life; however, he is only receiving eternal life because of Jesus saving him and us.
[Romans 3:10 NKJV] 10 "As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one."

Of course, eternal life is through the grace of God through Jesus Christ. Did I suggest otherwise?

Profession of belief is not a requirement for getting the saving grace of God. That grace was given to all people freely. It is like the air you breathe. Its there even though you dont always appreciate that it is there. God provided a way out of the condemnation of Adams sin for all. All people, not Christians only as some Christians believe.

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. (Romans 5:18 KJV)

Nobody is righteous enough to save themselves. That is obvious. But many are righteous enough to get eternal life.

@rajk999 said
Of course, eternal life is through the grace of God through Jesus Christ. Did I suggest otherwise?

Profession of belief is not a requirement for getting the saving grace of God. That grace was given to all people freely. It is like the air you breathe. Its there even though you dont always appreciate that it is there. God provided a way out of the condemnation of Adams si ...[text shortened]... teous enough to save themselves. That is obvious. But many are righteous enough to get eternal life.

But many are righteous enough to get eternal life.
No one is righteous enough to get eternal life; except Jesus.
I agree with most everything else you posted here; with limitations.

@kingdavid403 said
But many are righteous enough to get eternal life.
No one is righteous enough to get eternal life; except Jesus.
I agree with most everything else you posted here; with limitations.

Well I see it like this...

The saving grace of God, or salvation, or justification or the free gift of God, is what God gave to all people. That is stated in Romans 5 which I quoted, and many other places as well. That is the only part of the bible where the expression 'free gift' is used. It is free therefore no work is required on the part of mankind.

Eternal life is not free. It requires the keeping of the commandments and righteous living. So while all people have benefited from the death of Christ, not all people will enter the Kingdom of God.

Jesus was clear who enters and who is cast out, and it has nothing to do with professions of faith or calling Lord Lord, or bible study, or going to church, or even baptism etc., and Jesus did refer to these people as righteous. So clearly some are righteous enough get eternal life and some are not.

@rajk999 said
Well I see it like this...

The saving grace of God, or salvation, or justification or the free gift of God, is what God gave to all people. That is stated in Romans 5 which I quoted, and many other places as well. That is the only part of the bible where the expression 'free gift' is used. It is free therefore no work is required on the part of mankind.

Eternal life i ...[text shortened]... these people as righteous. So clearly some are righteous enough get eternal life and some are not.

This is not true no one is righteous enough to get eternal life another gospel you have. Do you think those you call worthy enough worked hard enough for it? God is now obligated to give them eternal life? Is God going to obligated to you?

@kellyjay said
This is not true no one is righteous enough to get eternal life another gospel you have. Do you think those you call worthy enough worked hard enough for it. God is now obligated to give them eternal life? Is God going to obligated to you?

Nobody is interested in your church doctrine. If you have something to post from the teachings of Christ then post it. Otherwise shut up and learn. Jesus called those who he welcomed into the Kingdom of God, righteous.

Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? (Matthew 25:37-39 KJV)

Paul also distinguished between the righteous and the unrighteous, stating that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God while the righteous will.

@rajk999 said
Nobody is interested in your church doctrine. If you have something to post from the teachings of Christ then post it. Otherwise shut up and learn. Jesus called those who he welcomed into the Kingdom of God, righteous.

[i]Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a ...[text shortened]... ighteous, stating that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God while the righteous will.

The righteousness of God is through God’s grace through faith and those who receive this mercy will do works of righteousness. You have it backwards where we have to earn eternal life, earn our salvation instead of reconciliation due to Jesus first.

You reduce yourself into a liar making claims about people you do not know.