Originally posted by FreakyKBH [b]So, would your child go to hell or not, simply in virtue of not sharing your beliefs? You appear to be contradicting the earlier statement you endorsed. Anyone who rejects the offer of that gift of salvation, will be cast into the LOF, regardless of religious affiliation. That is what I endorse, and that is what I have endorsed without contradiction or apology throughout my brief tenure on this site.[/b]
Just to refresh your memory, here's a copy of your post from the "How petty can God be?" thread. Note particularly the segment in bold.
PAWNOKEYHOLE (QUOTED):
So, just to be absolutely clear on this:
"I, FreakKBH, support the damnation of my child to an eternity of agony for not accepting Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour (i.e., by becoming an atheist)."
Would you be prepared, before the RHP community, to endorse the statement above?
FREAKYKBH:
Abso-freakin'-lutely. Anything less would be a scosch disingenuous, don't you think?
Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole Just to refresh your memory, here's a copy of your post from the "How petty can God be?" thread. Note particularly the segment in bold.
PAWNOKEYHOLE (QUOTED):
So, just to be absolutely clear on this:
"I, FreakKBH, support the damnation of my child to an eternity of agony for not accepting Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour ([b]i.e., by becom :
Abso-freakin'-lutely. Anything less would be a scosch disingenuous, don't you think?
[/b]A thought experiment for anyone who holds that view (not intended to be sarcastic):
Suppose God left the decision up to you? Do you think the answer God would want from you is: “Yep, Lord, do it”? (BTW, I do not think a careful reading of the Abraham/Isaac story indicates that that is the answer YHVH wanted from Abraham.)
Sometimes I think theologians—especially those with highly systematized theologies (which I think Freaky's, for example, is), end up circumscribing and entrapping God within the bounds of consistency in their own systems. Just thinking “out loud.”
Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole If he showed genuine signs of remorse, it implies he had something to be genuinely remorseful for--which rather precludes ironic pretense at being an anti-Semite.
Or, more likely, being drunk. Quit reading into things so much: it shows your jealousy.
Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole Just to refresh your memory, here's a copy of your post from the "How petty can God be?" thread. Note particularly the segment in bold.
PAWNOKEYHOLE (QUOTED):
So, just to be absolutely clear on this:
"I, FreakKBH, support the damnation of my child to an eternity of agony for not accepting Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour (i.e., by becom :
Abso-freakin'-lutely. Anything less would be a scosch disingenuous, don't you think?
I require no memory refreshment, thanks. There is nothing in my statements which contradict anything you have offered. You are simply attempting to make something out of nothing, and failing at the attempt.
Originally posted by vistesd A thought experiment for anyone who holds that view (not intended to be sarcastic):
Suppose God left the decision up to you? Do you think the answer God would want from you is: “Yep, Lord, do it”? (BTW, I do not think a careful reading of the Abraham/Isaac story indicates that that is the answer YHVH wanted from Abraham.)
Sometimes I think theol ...[text shortened]... ntrapping God within the bounds of consistency in their own systems. Just thinking “out loud.”[/b]
If God were to leave the decision up to me, I would say, let every man be the liar. Speculative scenarios ungrounded in reality will yield nothing. To say that God is not bound by His own attributes leads to assured absurdities.
Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole If he showed genuine signs of remorse, it implies he had something to be genuinely remorseful for--which rather precludes ironic pretense at being an anti-Semite.
Not necessarily. Even an ironic pretense at being an anti-Semite can be misunderstood as genuine anti-Semitism (and remember that the decision to make an ironic pretense was made while drunk!) and cause real hurt / have other negative consequences.
Originally posted by kirksey957 Here's something that a person in recovery from alcoholism might say: "I said some bad things that reflect the bad attitude I have." Everyone is making excuses for him. I keep hearing "it was the alcohol making him say that." Maybe the alcohol was just bringing out the truth of what he really feels and he is just too dishonest to admit it.
I am not attempting to make excuses for the man. We all are held accountable for our actions despite hard luck stories such as having a father pound racists rhetoric into you head your entire life. Perhaps this preaching of hate helped drive him to alcohol? Perhaps the alcohol then drove him to spew his father's rhetoric? Who is to say? My only point is that he seemed to have turned to Christ in order to heip him with his demons which include alcoholism and antiemetic rhetoric to name a few. He seemed to be on the right track but then fell off the wagon. Now that he is down and out those who dislike him due to his Christian beliefs can ridicule him all the more. It is also possible that despite becoming a Christian he continued to hold onto his fathers antisemetism. I just hope God reveals that such hate is not of God and in fact Christ himself was Jewish.
BTW Do any of you think he would be encountering such bad press had he not come out with Passion of the Christ or if he were not a Christian? We here anti-semetic rhetoric all day long coming from the various sources such Hamas, Hizbullah, and Iran. Yet I never hear anyone becoming outraged at such rhetoric. At least Mel was drunk when he said those things.
Originally posted by whodey I am not attempting to make excuses for the man. We all are held accountable for our actions despite hard luck stories such as having a father pound racists rhetoric into you head your entire life. Perhaps this preaching of hate helped drive him to alcohol? Perhaps the alcohol then drove him to spew his father's rhetoric? Who is to say? My only point is ...[text shortened]... r anyone becoming outraged at such rhetoric. At least Mel was drunk when he said those things.
It looks like it's his religious beliefs that have made him anti-semitic, anti-Anglican, anti-gay, etc. etc. etc.
Originally posted by Palynka I didn't know he was developing a series about the Holocaust. That should have been interesting.
Did ABC ever said why they shut it down?
Not officially, but it was cancelled as soon as the outburst came to light.
From the Times again:
A spokesperson for ABC, which is owned by Walt Disney, confirmed that the project was being pulled, telling the paper that it had been two years and the network still had not seen a script. The spokesman declined to say whether the decision was motivated by Gibson's rant.
Originally posted by dottewell It looks like it's his religious beliefs that have made him anti-semitic, anti-Anglican, anti-gay, etc. etc. etc.
How drunk was he?
I fully acknowledge the fact that antisemetism has been cultivated throughout history by Christiandom and much to our shame. I reject the notion, however, that this is cultivated in scripture or by Christ.
Originally posted by whodey I reject the notion, however, that this is cultivated in scripture or by Christ.
Never said it was. But if you read the profile link I posted, or various others, it is clear that Gibson has - since he became a hard-line Catholic - had a number of "incidents" involving other religions and social groups.
It appears that in his case it his religion that is at the root of his problems, not alcoholism. He wasn't even particularly drunk this time.
Originally posted by dottewell Never said it was. But if you read the profile link I posted, or various others, it is clear that Gibson has - since he became a hard-line Catholic - had a number of "incidents" involving other religions and social groups.
It appears that in his case it his religion that is at the root of his problems, not alcoholism. He wasn't even particularly drunk this time.
I cannot speak for hard-line Catholics because I am not one. I would assume, however, that Catholism points soley to Christ and his teachings as the road to follow. If they differ then please explain how.
Originally posted by whodey I cannot speak for hard-line Catholics because I am not one. I would assume, however, that Catholism points soley to Christ and his teachings as the road to follow. If they differ then please explain how.
It's not for me to explain where Mel Gibson gets his particular beliefs from.
I merely point out that since he became deeply religious, he has had a number of similarly distasteful run-ins with other social and religious groups.
mel gibson
06 Aug '06 21:16
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