15 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeesterWe are not restricted to a specific time to remember what
Hi there, I agree with all your comment except the piece about specific times for us to celebrate the breaking of bread. I believe the the significance of special dates is a distraction from the core truth held within and although I see the parallel with the annual passover, I do not believe that the Lord wants us to be religious about it, Jesus hated t ...[text shortened]... ommunion with God - in the religious organisation and denominations I see the barriers going up.
Jesus the Christ has done for us. Israel had been celebrating
the Passover for hundreds of years and many of the people
did not realize that it was anything more than their first born
sons had been spared from death by God and that God had
led them out of Egypt and freed them from slavery. Don't
get me wrong, that was a big deal, but Jesus the Christ was
revealing that this was a foreshadowing or prophecy of the
greater thing that He was to do for all mankind and not just
for Israel. The Orthodox Jews today still do not accept Him
and celebrate the Passover in much the same way. Jesus
the Christ wanted the Jews of His time as well as today to,
especially, remember Him when they celebrated this Passover
in the future as often as they did it. He seemed to be more
concerned that they remember Him when they did it, not the
actual date that they did it on. We have a tendency to just
celebrate an important event annually on the date it happened.
Like Independence Day in the United States of America which
was July 4, 1791 and which is a legal holiday here each year
on July 4. Sometimes we just call the holiday, July the Fourth.
Many of us celebrate it by cooking hamburgers, hotdogs, and
sometimes steaks on an outside grill. The young people, that
are not very familiar with our history don't even know the
significance of the holiday. I think this is why Jesus the Christ
asked His disciples to remember Him so they would teach
their children the significance of the Passover when they
celebrated it in the future. If you wish to celebrate it more
often I am sure He would be please as long as you remember
Him.
15 Apr 11
Originally posted by RJHindsInteresting thoughts - when you say "we" and "our" who are you referring to?
We are not restricted to a specific time to remember what
Jesus the Christ has done for us. Israel had been celebrating
the Passover for hundreds of years and many of the people
did not realize that it was anything more than their first born
sons had been spared from death by God and that God had
led them out of Egypt and freed them from slavery. Don' ...[text shortened]... ou wish to celebrate it more
often I am sure He would be please as long as you remember
Him.
15 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeesterYour question strikes me funny because it reminds of
Interesting thoughts - when you say "we" and "our" who are you referring to?
my grandson, who asks so many questions about
things that seem self-evident to me. Anyway, if you
really need an explanation of who "we" and "our"
refers to here it is:
1. The first "we" refers to "Christians".
2. The second ""we" refers to "mankind" in general or
"the general public".
3. "Our" refers to the citizens of the United States of America.
I hope that clarifies it for you.
15 Apr 11
3 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieFor goodness sake what scriptural references and what point are you making.
Bobby is a legend, peace be upon him! now if you dont mind you, Conrau, and Doward
shall address those scriptural references, if you please!
This thread is about the JW belief that some full moon and exactly 2000 years ago Christ was breaking bread with his disciples. Despite that calendar claim being complete hogwash and totally irrelevant to the breaking of break you persist as all religionists do that it gives your "shivers up your spine"!
I've indulged you by pointing out very clearly and concisely and with few words that the curtain was rent in 2 from top to bottom at the moment of Christ's death signifying that ALL have entry to the Holiest of Holies.
Of course you can't accept this because your RELIGION still wants to create a hierarchy using the outer areas of the temple as evidence of that being replicated in heaven. I've heard it all before robbie and it is gross error. Look at the simple things robbie. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is so simple people can't believe it and desire to make it into a religion and create rules and boundaries and hierarchies which give men with fat egos something to feel special about.
Sorry to be so direct, but for goodness sake!
You try to avoid the torn curtain and focus on the hierarchy. Look to Jesus instead.
15 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeesterYes RC what about the torn curtain? From top to bottom!!! BTW airfare to Scotland? Be fun but I would want to go sight seeing LOL
For goodness sake what scriptural references and what point are you making.
This thread is about the JW belief that some full moon and exactly 2000 years ago Christ was breaking bread with his disciples. Despite that calendar claim being complete hogwash and totally irrelevant to the breaking of break you persist as all religionists do that it gives ...[text shortened]... !
You try to avoid the torn curtain and focus on the hierarchy. Look to Jesus instead.
The law is a school master and the division was there to show man how holy God really is.
Manny
15 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeestertry these for size oh great king and priest, one who is destined to rule with Christ for
For goodness sake what scriptural references and what point are you making.
This thread is about the JW belief that some full moon and exactly 2000 years ago Christ was breaking bread with his disciples. Despite that calendar claim being complete hogwash and totally irrelevant to the breaking of break you persist as all religionists do that it gives ...[text shortened]... !
You try to avoid the torn curtain and focus on the hierarchy. Look to Jesus instead.
a thousand years,
Psalm 37:29) . . .The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever
upon it.
(1 Corinthians 4:8) . . .you have begun ruling as kings without us, have you? And I wish indeed
that you had begun ruling as kings, that we also might rule with you as kings. . .
(2 Timothy 2:12) . . .if we go on enduring, we shall also rule together as kings. . .
(Revelation 5:10) and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to
rule as kings over the earth.”
(Revelation 20:6) . . .but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with
him for the thousand years. . .
Clearly there are two distinct hopes, those who will rule as Kings and priest with the Christ and
exercise dominion over the earth and those who will reside upon the earth in a righteous
society. If you are of the former and are party to the covenant instituted by Christ you
partake, if on the other hand, you have no inclination that this is the case, you will observe. Its
clear, its concise and its Biblically established.
15 Apr 11
5 edits
Originally posted by menace71what about the scriptures above? all the torn curtain represents is that they way into the
Yes RC what about the torn curtain? From top to bottom!!! BTW airfare to Scotland? Be fun but I would want to go sight seeing LOL
The law is a school master and the division was there to show man how holy God really is.
Manny
presence of God has been made manifest to those who will rule as Kings and priests
with Christ, it really is that simple. You will note that there is no mention of law in any
of the scriptures that i have provided so that excuse is now barred as well.
site seeing, no way mate you and I will be going on the ministry from house to house,
trying to reach the people with lifes waters absolutely free, then we can go site seeing
🙂
15 Apr 11
Originally posted by menace71Hi Manny. Are you still in the Seattle area?
Yes RC what about the torn curtain? From top to bottom!!! BTW airfare to Scotland? Be fun but I would want to go sight seeing LOL
The law is a school master and the division was there to show man how holy God really is.
Manny
15 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThat is very tenuous set of scriptures onto which to build an entire doctrine. But again it's all about hierarchy with you guys isn't it?
try these for size oh great king and priest, one who is destined to rule with Christ for
a thousand years,
Psalm 37:29) . . .The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever
upon it.
(1 Corinthians 4:8) . . .you have begun ruling as kings without us, have you? And I wish indeed
that you had begun ruling as king ...[text shortened]... that this is the case, you will observe. Its
clear, its concise and its Biblically established.
There are others:
"The first shall be last and the last first". What do you make of that hierarchy boy?
And:
"For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him"
Hierarchy is a symptom of the Babylonian spirit. The same spirit that puts The Vicar of Christ in place of Christ as his name states. I believe there will be some distinction in heaven but not as you JWs interpret it, because what you draw men to is a coveting of hierarchy, of position and vain self glory.
Remember if you think you are first - you may be last 😉
15 Apr 11
7 edits
Originally posted by divegeestertenuous, please note i did not author them, they can be found in any bible making your
That is very tenuous set of scriptures onto which to build an entire doctrine. But again it's all about hierarchy with you guys isn't it?
There are others:
"The first shall be last and the last first". What do you make of that hierarchy boy?
And:
"For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesse position and vain self glory.
Remember if you think you are first - you may be last 😉
assertion, ludicrous. You really have no idea what you will do in heaven do you? You
had no idea you were destined to be a King and a priest did you? You dont know how
to reconcile the idea that there are two distinct hopes, those who will be with Christ
and form the heavenly government that will rule over the earth, and those who will reside
forever upon the earth in a righteous society. I do not blame you in any way, its
impossible to get an accurate picture of these things independently.
as for vain glory, its not I that professes to be a King and a priest that will rule with
Christ, its you. If I have no desire to reside in heaven as a King and a priest with
Christ, how can i covet it? Making your assertion even more ludicrous.
I see you make no attempt to understand the scriptures, that's fine, at least you
have been made aware of them. See you Sunday evening at a K/Hall near you,
your friendly neighbour hood spider witness, Robbie 🙂
15 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeesterThis message in the Bible of the paradise earth being restored is a promise that all of God's servants of old had in their hearts and looked forward to. If you were to look back thru the entire Old Testiment there is never one thought, hope or mention by any of them of going to heaven after their death. All their hopes were of an earthly resurrection.
That is very tenuous set of scriptures onto which to build an entire doctrine. But again it's all about hierarchy with you guys isn't it?
There are others:
"The first shall be last and the last first". What do you make of that hierarchy boy?
And:
"For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesse ...[text shortened]... position and vain self glory.
Remember if you think you are first - you may be last 😉
So to say the JW's base a major belief on a couple scriptures is silly.
In contrast it's silly that many religions base the major doctrine of the Trinity on "one scripture" where Jesus makes the statement that he and his Father are one. That's not what he even meant but yet this misunderstood statement was taken out of context and was mixed in with the already paganistic teachings that had been around for ions by paganistic societies.
So you don't need to point a finger at the JW's saying we base a true Bible doctrine on one or two scriptures. That is silly!!!!!
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15 Apr 11
Originally posted by galveston75He's still arguing for some reason beyond my grasp for the Catholic church even with mountains of evidence that after just a few hundred years after the apostles died, many things, yes serious things started to change and began to be corrupted by pagan beliefs that were allowed into the churches...just as was fortold by scripture.
I'm still confused at our old friend Conrau K here. He's still arguing for some reason beyond my grasp for the Catholic church even with mountains of evidence that after just a few hundred years after the apostles died, many things, yes serious things started to change and began to be corrupted by pagan beliefs that were allowed into the churches...just ...[text shortened]... ean if he really believes this Catholic stuff why isn't he an active member of that religion?
I have not been presented with 'mountains' of evidence. Whenever you and RC discuss history, you almost always get it wrong. Neither of you can distinguish the celebration of the Lord's supper from the commemoration of the Pascha. Whenever you quote a historian talking about one, it inevitably refers to the other. And when I try to clarify what one Church Father was saying, RC tells me he doesn't care because they were apostates -- well, really, why quote them in the first place then?
What makes it worse is that you rely exclusively on apologetical JW literature, which always takes things out of context. RC once quoted from the Catholic Encyclopedia to say that priests no longer preach the Trinity; in context, what the article said was that priests in France, in the nineteenth century no longer preach the Thomistic understanding of the Trinity. This is the kind of dodgy misrepresentation you rely on.
And at last I heard our old friend Conrau K had turned atheist on us. What is this guy up too? I actually find all this really intertaining to say the least with him. I mean if he really believes this Catholic stuff why isn't he an active member of that religion?
My religious convictions have no relevance here. I may doubt the Catholic faith, but why should that affect my ability to try to read history objectively? I am a postgrad in classics writing a thesis on 1st century history. These debates about early Christians are almost of professional interest to me. I really can't help but intervene when you and RC promote these gross historical errors.
15 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by Conrau KI think if your honest and look back on Robbies and my many, many post just in this forum alone my friend you'll see the vast majoriy of our answers are from the Bible and quoted fom the Bible. So that accusation doesn't fly.
[b]He's still arguing for some reason beyond my grasp for the Catholic church even with mountains of evidence that after just a few hundred years after the apostles died, many things, yes serious things started to change and began to be corrupted by pagan beliefs that were allowed into the churches...just as was fortold by scripture.
I have not been I really can't help but intervene when you and RC promote these gross historical errors.[/b]
And the really big differance between you and Robbie and myself is we are not hypocrites. We completely believe in our faith and the organization we're a part of.
It's really silly to me to hear you defend that Catholics as you do as it really undermines anything you say.
Sorry but that's the way I see it.