14 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeesterGood point. Jesus the Christ was trying to show His disciple that
So you are asking me a question to which you already (think) you know the answer to - are you trying to test me you cheeky little glory grabber...
The temple curtain represents the barrier between man and God that occurred at the fall. God set up a Priestly order and strict ordinances by which those elect few may enter. At the death of Christ there ...[text shortened]... e all have access to God without all the Priests and ordinances (OT Law etc).
Good isn't it.
the Passover had been referring to Him all the time. He became
that Passover Lamb when He died for all our sins once and for all.
The blood of the spotless, unblemished lambs sacrificed for the
sins of the nation of Israel each year was symbolic of the sinless
Jesus, the true passover lamb. The sins that had separated us from
communion with God, symbolozed by the temple curtains, was no longer
a barrier since Jesus had paid the price, death, for our sins. Death, you
remember, was man's punishment for his sin against God from the
Genesis account. Jesus, being both God and man could fully pay this
debt. He was not only the son of man, being born of the virgin Mary,
but also, the Son of God, since His Father was God. As a sinless man,
He did not deserve to suffer and die; but He did for us. There is no
greater love than that. And because He was the Son of God, He could
pay the dept for all men for eternity. We are to remember, especially
at the time of the passover, what He has done for us until he comes
again to actually free us from any type of death. He was born into this
world at the time of the Passover and 35 sinless years later He gave up
His life for us at the time of the Passover.
15 Apr 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhat you say here I'm in full agreement with. The old testament is the foreshadowing of Christ. The Ram for Abraham Christ. The Passover for the Israelites Christ.
Yes, indeed, which led me also to try to assert that the memorial is like a new kind of
passover celebration, this time for Christians who accepted the sin atoning sacrifice.
Although i continue to assert that there are no special properties in or around the actual
bread and wine, they are, as was the case with the Christ, merely symbolic an ...[text shortened]... erfore we shall ascribe magical properties to the unleavened bread and wine.
I dont think so.
R.C. we may not agree on a lot but I love the simplicity of the Bible because it cut to the chase.
Manny
15 Apr 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieOne fact Robbie the curtain that separated the Holy of Holies was ripped from top to bottom signifying that God did this thing and it means that through Christ we may now approach with confidence. So the old pattern is changed. I think the pattern of the temple was set in the old testament to show how holy God is. The High Priest as you know could only enter once a year. Also I think of the vision of Isiah (we can argue if He really saw God later LOL) In which he saw how holy god is. Isiah said I'm undone for I have seen God and I have unclean lips. Man was separated from God except the priest who mediated for man before God. Now in Christ we have the priest who mediates and advocates like a lawyer in our defense before the holy father on his throne. Hebrews explains this throughly for the Jewish and Gentile mind.
you made reference to the temple and in particular the most holy, as the temple is a reflection of
the reality that is in the heavens, what do the different divisions of the temple signify, because
quite clearly, not all Israelites entered into the most Holy, in fact, only the priestly class did, yet
they were all dedicated servants of God, therefore if this is a pattern and clearly Paul states that it
is, why is that the case?
Manny
15 Apr 11
Originally posted by menace71Your a good guy Manny. "Honestly" pray to God and if you are really searching he'll see that.
Thanks I'm so struggling with religion in general these days. I'm just struggling period to be honest
Manny
But as ones in the Bible such as Saul (Paul) who honestly thought they were doing things right in his beliefs but was really not, still had a good heart and was willing to learn the truth of God and his son and wanted to serve them with truth.
But...you have to be willing to accept the truth even if it's not the comfortable thing to do!!!!!!
15 Apr 11
Originally posted by menace71Your doing good here Manny. But do you not see in your description here that there is at least a little seperation of beings between God and Jesus? The trinity is another subject as we all know but just think along these lines with this topic here.
One fact Robbie the curtain that separated the Holy of Holies was ripped from top to bottom signifying that God did this thing and it means that through Christ we may now approach with confidence. So the old pattern is changed. I think the pattern of the temple was set in the old testament to show how holy God is. The High Priest as you know could only ent ...[text shortened]... er on his throne. Hebrews explains this throughly for the Jewish and Gentile mind.
Manny
15 Apr 11
Originally posted by galveston75I see the person of Christ and yes I see the father. 🙂
Your doing good here Manny. But do you not see in your description here that there is at least a little seperation of beings between God and Jesus? The trinity is another subject as we all know but just think along these lines with this topic here.
No man in heaven or earth or anywhere in all of creation is worthy to open the seal.
No angel.
So John wept bitterly but one was found the Lamb!! The Majesty of Christ can't be diminished. You can't have the Father without Christ. Every Knee will bow and confess that Jesus is Lord. Some out of joy others out of pure dread and fear. You asked I see no separation in majesty or purpose!! Only in person-hood.
Manny
15 Apr 11
Originally posted by menace71You might not be able to win a game, but it looks to me
I see the person of Christ and yes I see the father. 🙂
No man in heaven or earth or anywhere in all of creation is worthy to open the seal.
No angel.
So John wept bitterly but one was found the Lamb!! The Majesty of Christ can't be diminished. You can't have the Father without Christ. Every Knee will bow and confess that Jesus is Lord. Some out ...[text shortened]... fear. You asked I see no separation in majesty or purpose!! Only in person-hood.
Manny
that you understand a more important thing quiet well.
15 Apr 11
Originally posted by RJHindsHi there, I agree with all your comment except the piece about specific times for us to celebrate the breaking of bread. I believe the the significance of special dates is a distraction from the core truth held within and although I see the parallel with the annual passover, I do not believe that the Lord wants us to be religious about it, Jesus hated the religionists of his time and he consistently demonstrated that he was here to break down the barriers to communion with God - in the religious organisation and denominations I see the barriers going up.
Good point. Jesus the Christ was trying to show His disciple that
the Passover had been referring to Him all the time. He became
that Passover Lamb when He died for all our sins once and for all.
The blood of the spotless, unblemished lambs sacrificed for the
sins of the nation of Israel each year was symbolic of the sinless
Jesus, the true passover lam ...[text shortened]... he Passover and 35 sinless years later He gave up
His life for us at the time of the Passover.
15 Apr 11
4 edits
Originally posted by divegeesterno its not good, for you have FAILED, let me state that gain, FAILED to answer any of the
So you are asking me a question to which you already (think) you know the answer to - are you trying to test me you cheeky little glory grabber...
The temple curtain represents the barrier between man and God that occurred at the fall. God set up a Priestly order and strict ordinances by which those elect few may enter. At the death of Christ there ...[text shortened]... e all have access to God without all the Priests and ordinances (OT Law etc).
Good isn't it.
questions that were put to you, please tell the forum, as you enter through the curtain,
and as you reside in heaven as a King and a Priest as you rule with Christ, for that is what you
are saying, over what will you exercise dominion? If all persons are thus destined to receive
the prize as Paul calls it, what about those other persons , that is the righteous who will reside
forever upon the earth, or do you disregard the words of the psalmist? Clearly you cannot
reconcile the two and have therefore sought to ignore one aspect in favour of the other as if it
negates it.
The answer of course is to be found in the temple arrangement which as we have proven,
testifies to the fact, that not all persons officiated as priests, yet provision was made for them
also to be part of true worship. If this as has been established is a reflection of heaven itself,
then it must have some significance, simply to state that the curtain is rent in two ands it
therefore doesn't matter is a failure to understand what was actually going on.
I will state it again, unless you understand the temple arrangement and the different aspect , a
reflection of heaven itself, you understand nothing and it leads you, as is self evident from your
post, to erroneous claims, that you are, now professing, to be a King and a priest and that you
will rule with Christ in his Kingdom, is that really what you are saying, i in fact don't think you
have the slightest idea what you are saying, but for a nominal Christian, its not that unusual
either, not an insult, merely a statement of fact, evidenced by your response.
you will of course note that i myself have not offered a comprehensive explanation merely
hinting at the different functions, lest you start crying about glory this and glory that, as if its my
fault that i understand my beliefs and you dont.
15 Apr 11
4 edits
(Psalm 37:29) . . .The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever
upon it.
(1 Corinthians 4:8) . . .you have begun ruling as kings without us, have you? And I wish indeed
that you had begun ruling as kings, that we also might rule with you as kings. . .
(2 Timothy 2:12) . . .if we go on enduring, we shall also rule together as kings. . .
(Revelation 5:10) and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to
rule as kings over the earth.”
(Revelation 20:6) . . .but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with
him for the thousand years. . .
Clearly there are two distinct hopes, those who will rule as Kings and priest with the Christ and
exercise dominion over the earth and those who will reside upon the earth in a righteous
society. If you are of the former and are party to the covenant instituted by Christ you
partake, if on the other hand, you have no inclination that this is the case, you will observe. Its
clear, its concise and its Biblically established.
15 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieYou really are an objectionable character at times you know. Anyway...
no its not good, for you have FAILED, let me state that gain, FAILED to answer any of the
questions that were put to you, please tell the forum, as you enter through the curtain,
and as you reside in heaven as a King and a Priest as you rule with Christ, for that is what you
are saying, over what will you exercise dominion? If all persons are out glory this and glory that, as if its my
fault that i understand my beliefs and you dont.
Here is what you asked me:
you made reference to the temple and in particular the most holy, as the temple is a reflection of the reality that is in the heavens, what do the different divisions of the temple signify, because quite clearly, not all Israelites entered into the most Holy, in fact, only the priestly class did, yet they were all dedicated servants of God, therefore if this is a pattern and clearly Paul states that it is, why is that the case?
The part about the divisions in the temple is not relevant to this thread and whilst I have an answer I'm not going to allow you to indulge your ego on it as clearly you are desperate to do so - you may start another thread if you wish and see if others will.
The second part of your question is relevant was answered in my previous post. It is simple and to the point cutting through all the barriers that men put between God and their laity.
15 Apr 11
Originally posted by divegeesterfine, but there is now, if you look in the post above, incontrovertible scriptural evidence which has
You really are an objectionable character at times you know. Anyway...
Here is what you asked me:
[quote]you made reference to the temple and in particular the most holy, as the temple is a reflection of the reality that is in the heavens, what do the different divisions of the temple signify, because quite clearly, not all Israelites entered into ...[text shortened]... ple and to the point cutting through all the barriers that men put between God and their laity.
nothing to do with me, my ego and is totally relevant to the discussion, you will now have no
recourse to any excuses.
15 Apr 11
1 edit
Originally posted by menace71go to the K/Hall, Sunday evening at the bottom of your road Manny, if you are not
What you say here I'm in full agreement with. The old testament is the foreshadowing of Christ. The Ram for Abraham Christ. The Passover for the Israelites Christ.
R.C. we may not agree on a lot but I love the simplicity of the Bible because it cut to the chase.
Manny
encouraged by it I will pay your air fare to come to the UK for the special talk on May
1st, entitled, 'Bible principles - can they help you cope with today's problems', looking
at the practical application of Biblical principles to help us in our life. I am looking
forward to that as much as the memorial, for we all need encouragement, in fact, we thrive upon it.