memorial of Christs death

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
go to the K/Hall near your home Manny, you will observe a simple ceremony, no golden candlesticks, no alter boys with incense, no ruby encrusted rings to kiss, no purple robes, just simple unleavened bread and wine, in commemoration of Christ's sacrificial body and blood, which made it possible for us to come into a relationship with God on the basis of that sacrifice and to receive forgiveness for sin, cleansing our consciences.

and no one partaking...useless

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
whether it is with regard to the lords supper or the pasha is your business, not mine, to
me they are one and the same, but of course that does not address the issue, in that
we are seeing a shift away from a celebration of the death of Christ, of which there is a
direct Biblical ordinance, to one, which has no Biblical basis whatsoever, a celebration
of the resurrection. In other words, its an apostasy.

whether it is with regard to the lords supper or the pasha is your business, not mine, to me they are one and the same, but of course that does not address the issue, in that we are seeing a shift away from a celebration of the death of Christ, of which there is a
direct Biblical ordinance, to one, which has no Biblical basis whatsoever, a celebration of the resurrection. In other words, its an apostasy.

But the question is not what is your or my business. What matters here is what Eusebius, Irenaeus and Justin the Martyr meant. Eusebius is clearly not talking about the celebration of the Lord's supper but about the period of the fasting, which could only mean the Pascha when feasting was compulsory over the forty days of Lent. Irenaeus too is also discussing the Pascha because that is the mystery of the resurrection, not the Lord's supper which is primarily about his sacrifice.

Originally posted by divegeester
I notice you do not deny what I said because you cannot.

I will not share my private life with you.

You make insulting statements and then back off by saying you are only "taking the rip" (whatever that means). No wonder you fall out with so many people at this site.

I'm not being hypocritical (that is such an easy word to throw into a debate w re true.

[b]"Let that be a lesson to you" - do you realise how arrogant you sound.[/b]

oh boo hoo, faith without works is dead, i will not waste my time answering to beliefs
that we do not even profess, you dont know anything about what we profess.

where is your statement on the temple? nowhere, typical nominal Christian, they come
into the fray mouthing off about this precept and that precept and when you press
them upon it, they run off shouting, you dont believe this, you dont believe that, listen up
spanky you brought the temple arrangement into the argument so either explain it or
we shall be forced to conclude you have not the slightest idea what you are talking
about.

Originally posted by Conrau K
whether it is with regard to the lords supper or the pasha is your business, not mine, to me they are one and the same, but of course that does not address the issue, in that we are seeing a shift away from a celebration of the death of Christ, of which there is a
direct Biblical ordinance, to one, which has no Biblical basis whatsoever, a celebration o the mystery of the resurrection, not the Lord's supper which is primarily about his sacrifice.

no its not, i could not care less what your church fathers are professing, as far as I am concerned they are apostates for they have deviated from the scriptural account and seek to inaugurate ordinances which cannot be found in scripture, for example, stating that the resurrection must be celebrated. I care even less for the traditions of the church, those authors were merely cited to demonstrate what has transpired, a shifting away from the scriptural record and supplanting it with something other than was originally practised.

Originally posted by Doward
and no one partaking...useless

last year roughly eight thousand persons partook worldwide, are you going to
continue to demonstrate your ignorance, for if i was you, i would cut it there, for as
yet , you have not accurately described one belief of ours, does your prejudice
know no bounds? not only are you intent in turning it into a mundane affair by
attributing magical qualities to the wine and bread, a reflection of a lack of spiritual
comprehension if ever there was one, but now you must add insult to injury by
continuing the facade and projecting that ignorance on to others.

I could go to mass, partake of the emblems, come home and be none the
wiser of what it was all about, i know, ive done it, and here you are , trying to
lecture us, on what we know and what we do not know. Give it up, you are surely
deluded if you think adding a priest, a golden goblet, incense and a ruby encrusted
ring to kiss adds anything to the understanding, other than to confirm what we
know already, its practically unrecognisable from the simple ceremony that Christ
instituted.

Originally posted by Doward
so then you believe that christ was physically ressurected?

state your scriptural references, for its well known, just how you people like to deviate
from them when discussing things of this nature.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
last year roughly eight thousand persons partook worldwide, are you going to
continue to demonstrate your ignorance, for if i was you, i would cut it there, for as
yet , you have not accurately described one belief of ours, does your prejudice
know no bounds? not only are you intent in turning it into a mundane affair by
attributing magical ...[text shortened]... know already, its practically unrecognisable from the simple ceremony that Christ
instituted.

In 2007 there were 16.6million people who attended the JW memerial services world wide, and only a paltry 8000 people were able to partake? How many from your hall Robbie? This means that less than 1 person per 200 were able to partake. If this isn't a useless ritual I don't know what is.

Originally posted by Doward
In 2007 there were 16.6million people who attended the JW memerial services world wide, and only a paltry 8000 people were able to partake? How many from your hall Robbie? This means that less than 1 person per 200 were able to partake. If this isn't a useless ritual I don't know what is.

Anyone is free to partake if they are of the opinion that they will rule with Christ as a
King and a Priest. There are only 7 million Jehovahs witnesses world wide, that means
9 million members of the public attended, if they had attended mass, what would they
have learned, nada! absolutely zero, instead they come to the Kingdom Hall and they
are taught what the ceremony was about, why its being celebrated, what the bread
represents, what the wine represents, why its important for us to exercise faith in the
sacrifice of the Christ. It is utterly and completely different to your empty ritual which
relies on gimmickry and cheap tricks to carry it out.

tell us this Doward, when i entered into chapel and partook of the emblems what did i
learn how did that benefit me in anyway, do tell.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Anyone is free to partake if they are of the opinion that they will rule with Christ as a
King and a Priest. There are only 7 million Jehovahs witnesses world wide, that means
9 million members of the public attended, if they had attended mass, what would they
have learned, nada! absolutely zero, instead they come to the Kingdom Hall and they ...[text shortened]... chapel and partook of the emblems what did i
learn how did that benefit me in anyway, do tell.

had your intentions been pure about communion, and had you paid nattention to the ritual you would have learned plenty. Its not the ritual that was the problem, it was you.

As for the whole kings and priests garbage, you have yet to establish through scripture that only "the ruling class' partake, or even why. This is one of those huge giant holes in JW theology.

Originally posted by Doward
had your intentions been pure about communion, and had you paid nattention to the ritual you would have learned plenty. Its not the ritual that was the problem, it was you.

As for the whole kings and priests garbage, you have yet to establish through scripture that only "the ruling class' partake, or even why. This is one of those huge giant holes in JW theology.

I see so it was my fault that the priest taught me nothing, man, the ultimate irony or
what, perhaps if i had lined the coffers with more dosh, i would have learned
something more? Who can tell.

As for your last statement, it was proffered by divegeester, that the temple is
somehow, a representation of the reality that is in heaven, if that is the case and it
can be establish biblicaly that it is the case, then why are there different divisions,
for gentiles, priests etc if all are to be party to the most holy, or perhaps Paul didn't
know what he was talking about when he wrote this,

(Hebrews 9:24) . . .For Christ entered, not into a holy place made with hands, which
is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, now to appear before the person of
God for us. . .

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i did not institute it did I? Christ did, and what is more, he held it on an annual
occasion. Indeed, it was not until after the apostolic fathers died that it was changed
to a weekly celebration. Its not simply breaking bread, Christ stated that it was
symbolic. I do not believe that it should be done anywhere and any time, otherwise
Chr ...[text shortened]... e of Christ sacrifice, its a time for reflection, its not an
ordinary thing, after all, is it?

I agree. Jesus the Christ said, "Do this in remembrance of Me."
We are to remember what He did for us on the Passover; but
it has nothing to do with becoming a priest or actually eating
His real flesh and drinking His real blood. It is symbolic of
what He did for us by sacrificing His body and shedding His
Blood to pay our sin debt. And even though it is a horrorable
thing, we must accept Him fully and accept what HE had to do
to save us.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
oh boo hoo, faith without works is dead, i will not waste my time answering to beliefs
that we do not even profess, you dont know anything about what we profess.

where is your statement on the temple? nowhere, typical nominal Christian, they come
into the fray mouthing off about this precept and that precept and when you press
them upon it, ...[text shortened]... r
we shall be forced to conclude you have not the slightest idea what you are talking
about.

Why do you always make everything so personal and offensive.

Whether I'm a "nominal Christian" (whatever that is) or not, is irrelevant; I would never question your personal commitment to whatever you believe. I question the organisation of which you are a member.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I see so it was my fault that the priest taught me nothing, man, the ultimate irony or
what, perhaps if i had lined the coffers with more dosh, i would have learned
something more? Who can tell.

As for your last statement, it was proffered by divegeester, that the temple is
somehow, a representation of the reality that is in heaven, if tha ...[text shortened]... f the reality, but into heaven itself, now to appear before the person of
God for us. . .[/b]

yes I would say it is your fault, because literally hundreds of millions of practicing catholics (never mind protestants) find communion a fulfilling means of grace. They are fully aware of the implications and origins of what they are doing, to say otherwise is to slander those hundreds of millions. Are there those that have no idea? of course, just as in the JW's there are many who "have no idea".

Scripture CLEARLY indicates that all the saints (body of believers) were included in communion and all partook. I sited the relevant passages earlier, you can choose to ignore them if you wish, but make no mistake Robbie, I am well educated in the matter, and well aware of the deficiencies in the JW theology in this case. Your blustering aside, you have made no credible rebuttal as of yet.

Originally posted by divegeester
Why do you always make everything so personal and offensive.

Whether I'm a "nominal Christian" (whatever that is) or not, is irrelevant; I would never question your personal commitment to whatever you believe. I question the organisation of which you are a member.

sooo do you have an answer to your assertion with regard to the temple or do you not?

Originally posted by Doward
yes I would say it is your fault, because literally hundreds of millions of practicing catholics (never mind protestants) find communion a fulfilling means of grace. They are fully aware of the implications and origins of what they are doing, to say otherwise is to slander those hundreds of millions. Are there those that have no idea? of course, just as in th ...[text shortened]... W theology in this case. Your blustering aside, you have made no credible rebuttal as of yet.

so if you are as well educated as you would have is believe, you shall then tell the
forum what the different aspects of the temple mean, for they are, as has been
Biblically established, a reflection of the heavenly reality itself, and please no amount
of posturing on your part or references to how well educated you are or whether you
were a submarine commander and a world war II flying ace will make up for it. The
temple is a reflection of the reality that is in heaven, Paul clearly states it, if you do not
understand the earthly temple arrangements, you do not understand the heavenly
ones either as a consequence. I shall be eagerly anticipating your elucidation on the
matter.