Originally posted by FMFYou have asked me many questions and I am sure can think of many more.
What if this results in them finding your 'torturer God' concept to be wrong and they tell you? Will you accept that the Holy Spirit figure you believe in has spoken to your heart in this way?
I accept the responsibility of appearing before God to give an account of what I have said and lived. I am taught that I will give an account to Christ.
Time will tell.
Now, a question to you. If you come before God and the gospel is true are you going to tell Him -
"You did not do enough to love me and save me?"
Because the essence of this argument, I think, is that - What ELSE could God have done ? That is if you really come to realize that Christ is God become a man.
I don't think you'll be able to rebuke God that He didn't do enough.
Originally posted by sonshipYou go so far as to imagine there will be a situation in which I talk to your God figure and ask him questions?
Now, a question to you. If you come before God and the gospel is true are you going to tell Him - "You did not do enough to love me and save me?" Because the essence of this argument, I think, is that - What ELSE could God have done ? That is if you really come to realize that Christ is God become a man. I don't think you'll be able to rebuke God that He didn't do enough.
You go so far as to imagine there will be a situation in which I talk to your God figure and ask him questions?
------------------------------------------------------------------
FMF's imagination goes so far as to imagine that his ability to live, choose and to argue at all came from some, I don't know, - lucky accident.
Originally posted by FMFIt is not a sneer. It is a simple statement of fact. No sneer.
You so often sneer at other people's thought experiments and yet here you are setting up a hypothetical scenario in which I have a conversation with your God figure and ask him questions?
Time .... will .... tell.
Originally posted by sonshipSo it's a thought experiment, OK.
If you come before God and the gospel is true are you going to tell Him -
"You did not do enough to love me and save me?"
I might ask:
Why would you need ~ for your "glory", or so I am told ~ to toss my neighbours, here where I live, into a furnace for eternity? Pious, generous, hard working, dignified humans ~ parents, grandparents, children, grandchildren. Why would you need ~ as a demonstration of "perfect justice", or so I am told ~ to toss them into a furnace and keep them alive there suffering for eternity? What is the purpose of that?
Originally posted by sonshipThis is just wordplay on your part. I said that you so often sneer at other people's thought experiments. What "simple statement of fact" do you think you are making when you sneer at others' thought experiments?
It is not a sneer. It is a simple statement of fact. No sneer.
Originally posted by sonshipCan you cite just one post of mine in 37,000 on this web site in which I made any such assertion? No. You can't. You're just making it up.
FMF's imagination goes so far as to imagine that his ability to live, choose and to argue at all came from some, I don't know, - lucky accident.
Originally posted by FMFFMF to sonship's torturer God figure: Why would you need ~ for your "glory", or so I am told ~ to toss my neighbours, here where I live, into a furnace for eternity? Pious, generous, hard working, dignified humans ~ parents, grandparents, children, grandchildren. Why would you need ~ as a demonstration of "perfect justice", or so I am told ~ to toss them into a furnace and keep them alive there suffering for eternity? What is the purpose of that?
So, sonship, in this thought experiment, what's the torturer God's answer?
I need to underscore dive's post to say that there are many, many of us, who value and treasure the truths of the Bible, and who find this doctrine repugnant and grossly insulting to both God and all Christians.
In particular, the two main "justifications" for eternal hellfire most often quoted, i.e. That "God does not send anybody to hell; you send yourself there", and "Because God is Just, there has to be a punishment for the ultimate sin of rejecting him, and his free offer of Salvation", are the two worst arguments possible, and the two most easily refuted.