Originally posted by @karoly-aczel
In fairness I believe other points of view to be equal to mine.
I am not trying to reach any overall consensus, but I do try to find consensus on certain points of debate.

So when people have different views, and do not care one wit about another's views or even
other's life do these represent equal views too? If not than what are you saying, some
views are equal and others not, or are they equal and then these murderous views must be
also called equal too?

Originally posted by @apathist
You say that either morality is objective or else it is worthless.

Objective morality is for people who must be TOLD right from wrong. This isn't worthless; it is how we train children and constrain the mentally infirm.

Surely if there is no objective right and wrong people would only be told what the subjective opinions of others are regarding right and wrong and they are free to decide otherwise.

Do you agree with BDP that 'some of us wouldn't (know that rape is wrong)- the ones never taught to respect the wishes of others?

Also why should anyone respect the wishes of others if that is only a subjective opinion?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Also why should anyone respect the wishes of others if that is only a subjective opinion?

It is just common decency in most cultures to respect the wishes of others.
Most "primitive" cultures have a custom of welcoming strangers for that reason.

Originally posted by @wolfgang59
It is just common decency in most cultures to respect the wishes of others.
Most "primitive" cultures have a custom of welcoming strangers for that reason.

And you cannot say that this custom is objectively better than the custom of another culture whereby they eat strangers?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Surely if there is no objective right and wrong people would only be told what the subjective opinions of others are regarding right and wrong and they are free to decide otherwise. [/quote]

Yes. People, aliens, bugs, lions and tigers and bears, trees and fungus and germs, and I suspect viruses too, yes. And, um, maybe planets and star systems and galaxies. We don't need to be told first, though.

Do you agree with BDP that 'some of us wouldn't (know that rape is wrong)- the ones never taught to respect the wishes of others?
Definite yes. This sort of situation has been dealt with in sci-fi stories. Questioning the stuff you would never think to question, this is a powerful and painful tool.

Also why should anyone respect the wishes of others if that is only a subjective opinion?
The golden rule. Which pre-exists the bible, btw.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
And you cannot say that this custom is objectively better than the custom of another culture whereby they eat strangers?

As far as earth beings go, that is an urban myth, btw. While some tribes may do cannablism for specific reasons, there have never been any cannablistic tribes on earth that just ate strangers.

Originally posted by @apathist
Yes. People, aliens, bugs, lions and tigers and bears, trees and fungus and germs, and I suspect viruses too, yes. And, um, maybe planets and star systems and galaxies. We don't need to be told first, though.

[b]Do you agree with BDP that 'some of us wouldn't (know that rape is wrong)- the ones never taught to respect the wishes of others?
Definite ...[text shortened]... ers if that is only a subjective opinion?[/b]
The golden rule. Which pre-exists the bible, btw.[/b]

You are saying people should respect each other because of the golden rule, but that would only be true if the golden rule were an objective moral law. If it is subjective it's not binding.

Originally posted by @apathist
As far as earth beings go, that is an urban myth, btw. While some tribes may do cannablism for specific reasons, there have never been any cannablistic tribes on earth that just ate strangers.

Some cultures are told to love their enemies, other cultures eat their enemies. Do you have a personal preference?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
You are saying people should respect each other because of the golden rule, but that would only be true if the golden rule were an objective moral law. If it is subjective it's not binding.

It is not binding, it is subjective, and it is a rule BECAUSE that is how we tend to behave; it is behavior that we tend to like and value. Your cart is in front of your horse!

Originally posted by @apathist
It is not binding, it is subjective, and it is a rule BECAUSE that is how we tend to behave; it is behavior that we tend to like and value. Your cart is in front of your horse!

This is worth restating. The golden rule does not tell us how we should tend to behave, instead it tells us how we do tend to behave. It is descriptive, not proscriptive.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
You are saying people should respect each other because of the golden rule, but that would only be true if the golden rule were an objective moral law. If it is subjective it's not binding.

The rule is not objective, and it is not binding. And I'm not saying that people should respect each other.

I'm saying that is what grown-ups do!

Originally posted by @apathist
This is worth restating. The golden rule does not tell us how we should tend to behave, instead it tells us how we do tend to behave. It is descriptive, not proscriptive.

So anyone who does not follow the golden rule is always justified to do so since the golden rule is not proscriptive.

Originally posted by @apathist
The rule is not objective, and it is not binding. And I'm not saying that people should respect each other.

I'm saying that is what grown-ups do!

And I'm not saying that people should respect each other.

And the fact that you cannot say they should doesn't bother you?

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Have you noticed that when humans do take up the slack of responsibility and game
authority over the things they can control, they actually bring about violence, and many
other nasty things.

Yes I have.

Have you notived we dont really notice when it goes smoothly? Like when Chechoslovakia split up into the Chech republic and Slovakia? It happened virtually overnight without a hint of fuss. Unlike Yugoslavia of course.
Practice makes perfect.
Whats your alternaive anyway? dont try and let other, dimmer minds run the show?

Originally posted by @kellyjay
So when people have different views, and do not care one wit about another's views or even
other's life do these represent equal views too? If not than what are you saying, some
views are equal and others not, or are they equal and then these murderous views must be
also called equal too?

In fairness I believe all points of view to be equal. Yes I do.

I was just saying that I dont try to make an overall case for myspiritual views, but I do try to 'win' some points.