Originally posted by FMF
You direct countless personal remarks at me ~ probably many many more of them than the on-topic questions and arguments I pose to Grampy Bobby ~ and I am just not bothered by whether what you do constitutes you "hounding" me or not.

Then you'll excuse me if I'm never "bothered" by your posts ever again. Stop talking to me.

Originally posted by Suzianne
I just get tired of your attitude that all posting in these forums must include verbal warfare of some kind.

Are you claiming to be against "verbal warfare" on these forums?

Originally posted by Suzianne
Then you'll excuse me if I'm never "bothered" by your posts ever again. Stop talking to me.

But surely you support my right to respond to any point you might make in a post in this public arena?

Originally posted by Suzianne
Apparently, GF thinks my beliefs threaten violence or subjugation, then. Do *you* think so? What about people who believe that others should be disrespected for non-existent violence or subjugation?

Why do you persist in deciding what I must think instead of listening to what I say I think?

I honestly believe that we would have far fewer fallings-out if you read what I actually
say instead of what you pre-decide I must be saying.


And again.

NOT RESPECTING YOUR BELIEFS IS NOT THE SAME AS NOT RESPECTING YOU OR YOUR RIGHT
TO HOLD THOSE BELIEFS.

So can you please remove your head from your posterior and stop claiming otherwise.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Let's say it's Thursday. You've been experiencing considerable discomfort in a particular part of your body since Christmas, enough so to phone your family doctor of many years for an appointment. Next Monday he sees you at 3:00 PM and asks for a further description of the symptoms and then does a full body audit along with blood work. At the desk an RN ...[text shortened]... and diagnosis by Friday. (Part 1 of 3 with an apology to Zahlanzi for veering widely off topic)

I'm sorry... Are you expecting me to respond to this?

If you have a point. make it.

Originally posted by googlefudge
I'm sorry... Are you expecting me to respond to this?

If you have a point. make it.

Please be patient; this public spirituality forum analogy attempts to simulate life. Thanks for your question.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Oh, that he will deny with his dying breath, but yes, he and I have 'gone around' several times already.

Once I wrote a post that turned into an essay on respect, and how we should respect each others' beliefs. (Not respect, as in 'take them to heart' or follow them, but to merely allow that people are different and what one believes need not be what eve ...[text shortened]... still there. This is why I tend to not turn the other cheek, but to slap back on occasion. 😕

Hah. Finally found the original conversation.

http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=158865&page=1

Reasons to be thankful to God

My first post [near the top] kicks it off and Suzianne responded with this:

Originally posted by googlefudge
EDIT: Looking at this I realise that it's not clear... I thought that these reasons for being
grateful were quite comical.

What's comical is your response.

While I understand your antagonism, I still find it ridiculous that you would intentionally bad-mouth what is clearly an opinion piece.

God does exist, and I find it strange to limit oneself to only a few reasons to be thankful to God. But I am not bad-mouthing RBHILL's opinion, either.

You didn't have to reply if you disagree. Or perhaps you could have said only that you disagree, your depiction of it as "comical" completely and totally disrespects RBHILL's opinion.

Yes, I even understand how some could feel that this was a provocation to those who hold opposite views, but for pete's sake, let the man have his opinion. Unless, of course, you don't mind people coming into your thread and crapping all over your opinion.

Just a little respect, is that too much to ask?

Followed by my response:

Yes it's too much to ask.

He's claiming to be thankful that we are all descended from the incestuous offspring
of one family after god committed genocide and killed everyone else...

That deserves ridicule.

As does anybody saying god does exist, you included.

Suzianne responded:

That's some gall to expect to be respected when you're not willing to give respect in return, just because you disagree with a concept that you do not personally believe in.

If you do believe in antagonizing your fellow man by not respecting their beliefs, how can you expect to be respected in turn? How does this make sense?

This is not a war, so I offer that participating in warfare against people you merely disagree with is anti-social, at best, and hateful, at worst.

I dropped this little bombshell:

Where did I say that I expect you to respect me?

I oppose everything you believe in and hold dear.

I would be insane to expect you to respect me.

I am not preprepared to respect your position because it's stupid and wrong.
It's utterly irrational and damaging to yourself and society.

Why on Earth should I respect a position that I believe to be wrong, stupid and
dangerous???

Aaaand it went downhill from there.

All in the thread linked at the top.

However I will quote this from one of my subsequent posts.

.... I don't respect your beliefs. I never have and never will.
I will mock them where they deserve mockery, and I will insult them where they need to
be insulted.
I always have and probably always will.

However, that is not to say that I can't respect you, or your right to hold your beliefs.
However crazy they may be.

And I also choose the time and place in which I EXPRESS the fact that I don't respect your
beliefs. I don't go around knocking on peoples doors, or accosting them in the street to let
them know that they are going to spend an eternity in hell... for example. ....

Because it's the point Suzianne always misses.

She rightfully doesn't respect beliefs such as the belief that evolution is wrong or that the world is
6000 years old, as can be seen by her many posts criticising or ridiculing such beliefs.
She also ridicules the idea that you cannot rationally use faith as a belief forming mechanism.

And yet if I [or anyone else] doesn't respect her beliefs...

Again, I call hypocrite.


Beliefs that can be shown to be wrong, harmful, irrational, ect shouldn't be respected.

What should be respected [with caveats] are people, and their right to hold such beliefs.

One of the caveats is that while you have the right to hold a belief, you do not have the right to
have that belief respected.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Hah. Finally found the original conversation.

http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=158865&page=1

Reasons to be thankful to God

My first post [near the top] kicks it off and Suzianne responded with this:

[quote][b][i]Originally posted by googlefudge
EDIT: Looking at this I realise that it's not clear... I thought that thes ...[text shortened]... you have the right to hold a belief, you do not have the right to
have that belief respected.

That's one of the myriad of threads we've 'gone around' on, to be sure, but it's not the 'original' one, not the one I was speaking of, anyway.

Originally posted by Suzianne
That's one of the myriad of threads we've 'gone around' on, to be sure, but it's not the 'original' one, not the one I was speaking of, anyway.

Yes - it is a woman's prerogative to change her mind. 🙄

Originally posted by Suzianne
That's one of the myriad of threads we've 'gone around' on, to be sure, but it's not the 'original' one, not the one I was speaking of, anyway.

Then you go find it, it took me hours to find that.

And it's the argument that fits the description you gave.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (Page 9)
Let's say it's Thursday. You've been experiencing considerable discomfort in a particular part of your body since Christmas, enough so to phone your family doctor of many years for an appointment. Next Monday he sees you at 3:00 PM and asks for a further description of the symptoms and then does a full body audit along with blood work. At the desk ...[text shortened]... ults and diagnosis by Friday. (Part 1 of 3 with an apology to Zahlanzi for veering widely off topic)

On Friday you call for the results from your visit the previous Monday with your trusted family doctor. Blood Work is normal. The diagnosis of your intermittent abdominal discomfort is routine stomach aches caused by indigestion. The doctor suggests an Over The Counter Antacid Tablet and a balanced diet without excessive intake of fatty animal or dairy products.

You're relieved that it's nothing more serious and thank the RN for taking your call. During the next month, much to your surprise, the abdominal discomfort becomes frequent abdominal pain. Sleeping soundly also becomes a challenge. The OTC Antacid Tablets didn't help relieve the condition, even though you took the maximum daily dosage as stated on the bottle's label. Your family is concerned and suggests that you seek a second opinion from an experienced Internal Medicine MD.

You summarily dismiss the option as unnecessary for the time being [with the rationale that stomach aches are common and that you're really too young a man for the condition to be caused by the onset of any chronic illness]. (Part 2 of 3)

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
On Friday you call for the results from your visit the previous Monday with your trusted family doctor. Blood Work is normal. The diagnosis of your intermittent abdominal discomfort is routine stomach aches caused by indigestion. The doctor suggests an Over The Counter Antacid Tablet and a balanced diet without excessive intake of fatty animal or dairy ...[text shortened]... o young a man for the condition to be caused by the onset of any chronic illness]. (Part 2 of 3)

Please get to the point so I can express my derision at this inane and unbelievable fantasy.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Please get to the point so I can express my derision at this inane and unbelievable fantasy.

googlefudge, you're free to make the decision to stay with this man's life as it plays out or to ignore it. Nobody's coercing your will. Please bear in mind that good choices expand options while bad choices limit options in my life and yours. -Bob

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
googlefudge, you're free to make the decision to stay with this man's life as it plays out or to ignore it. Nobody's coercing your will. Please bear in mind that good choices expand options while bad choices limit options in my life and yours. -Bob

... Please bear in mind that good choices expand options while bad choices limit options....

This is not actually true.

It's an empty statement meant to sound deep but is actually both shallow and wrong.

A trait common in many religious pronouncements.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Deepity

Expanding options is not only not always good, it's frequently completely counter productive.

Whenever one is trying to select from a series of options what you often need to be doing is
narrowing those options down till you select the final best option.

Giving yourself more choices in such a situation usually just makes the job harder.


And incidentally 'this man' is an idiot who shouldn't take his health so lightly.

Originally posted by googlefudge

... Please bear in mind that good choices expand options while bad choices limit options....

This is not actually true.

It's an empty statement meant to sound deep but is actually both shallow and wrong.

A trait common in many religious pronouncements.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Deepity

Expanding options is not only not alway ...[text shortened]... e job harder.


And incidentally 'this man' is an idiot who shouldn't take his health so lightly.

"Whenever one is trying to select from a series of options what you often need to be doing is
narrowing those options down till you select the final best option." -googlefudge

Point in fact is that you have "options" [plural] to choose from which wouldn't be the reality if bad choices were made.

"... narrowing those options down till you select the final best option." -gf

... is applicable to spiritual options with eternal ramifications as well.

"And incidentally 'this man' is an idiot who shouldn't take his health so lightly." -gf

Well said! Critical decisions should never be taken lightly.