Originally posted by ZahlanziSo you mean I cannot help support my claim that indeed all people find some kind of puppy fluffy through stipulation that if someone finds it fluffy, then it is simply that: a puppy? Drat.
with the difference that puppies are well defined. not everything fluffy is a puppy. the definition of puppies doesn't change every year to include little maggots or moocow babies. and also puppies are not a concept, an abstract idea.
with music it is subjective. like it is with art. when rap appeared all were shouting "wtf this is not music, they are talking".
Originally posted by Lord Sharkthat is your opinion, i find it again a matter of semantics. some think that rap isn't music, if you want to label me believing them they believe rap isn't music as "taking it literally", sure, i take them literally.
As I thought, you do take them literally then. What were you thinking, claiming you didn't?
i thought i explained myself properly. if you still don't understand, i can't argue with that until you produce a proper reason why you think i "take it literally" and what do you mean by that
Originally posted by LemonJellojust because people have different opinions about what music is or what art in general is or who would win in a fight between bruce lee, chuck norris and mahatma ghandi doesn't mean it can be applied to other concepts too. some issues are subjective. they allow different interpretations. puppies aren't. and new species of canines don't appear every decade and the ones that appear aren't so completely different than regular dogs.
So you mean I cannot help support my claim that indeed all people find some kind of puppy fluffy through stipulation that if someone finds it fluffy, then it is simply that: a puppy? Drat.
that is the reason you can't call fluffy things puppies. perhaps also because the definition of puppies isn't "stuff that is fluffy". how about you give a definition of music and we will see if kettles whistling don't fit
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Originally posted by Zahlanzisome think that rap isn't music,
that is your opinion, i find it again a matter of semantics. some think that rap isn't music, if you want to label me believing them they believe rap isn't music as "taking it literally", sure, i take them literally.
i thought i explained myself properly. if you still don't understand, i can't argue with that until you produce a proper reason why you think i "take it literally" and what do you mean by that
You think this because they say 'this isn't music' but you don't want me to conclude that you are taking the utterance 'this isn't music' literally?
You really are excelling yourself this time.
I hate to break it to you but saying 'this isn't music' about something that clearly is intended, bought, labelled and sold as music and which has the elements which transculturally and globally qualify something to be called music, should not be taken literally.
It is just a way of saying 'I don't like this' with emphasis.
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how about you give a definition of music and we will see if kettles whistling don't fit
I did that already and the result is that whistling kettles could count as music. In fact I'm toying with the idea of writing a piece for four whistling kettles...musicians would turn the gas knobs to alter pitches in 17/4 within a 113 bar cycle. Every 11th completion of the cycle they'll blow a raspberry just for you.
Originally posted by ZahlanziI want to push the claim that indeed all people dislike at least some form of music. To help support it, I am just going to be calling music any sequence of sounds that meets with general disapproval from someone.
just because people have different opinions about what music is or what art in general is or who would win in a fight between bruce lee, chuck norris and mahatma ghandi doesn't mean it can be applied to other concepts too. some issues are subjective. they allow different interpretations. puppies aren't. and new species of canines don't appear every decade ...[text shortened]... how about you give a definition of music and we will see if kettles whistling don't fit
(I was going to start a separate thread but...), Rock'n'roll music. Is it the devils music? If yes how so? What defines rock? ("rock 'n' roll music"was the origonal title, later refined to just "rock" )
Is it just as hard to define as "music"?
Ok. I'll give it a shot.
1. guitars(s)
2. power chords
3. 4/4 time signatures
4. bass and drums giving out a "rocky" feel to the backbeat.
...there ya go. I've already lost myself.
Any responses welcome with open arms.
Originally posted by Lord Sharkyou are a little confused
[b]some think that rap isn't music,
You think this because they say 'this isn't music' but you don't want me to conclude that you are taking the utterance 'this isn't music' literally?
You really are excelling yourself this time.
I hate to break it to you but saying 'this isn't music' about something that clearly is intended, bought, labelled ...[text shortened]... taken literally.
It is just a way of saying 'I don't like this' with emphasis.[/b]
i talked about a distinct and short period of awe that passed when other people, not me, were surprised by rap and said "this is not music". a period in which a new genre of music was viewed with surprise and skepticism before being accepted as art. which is what my point is all about. who are you to say that kettle whistling music shall not be accepted in the future?
Originally posted by Lord Sharkexcellent. maybe someone will also buy it. or maybe the critics will love it but won't get apreciation by the public. or nobody will like it in which case i suggest adding a microwave oven in the symphony that will do popcorn. would improve it.
[b]how about you give a definition of music and we will see if kettles whistling don't fit
I did that already and the result is that whistling kettles could count as music. In fact I'm toying with the idea of writing a piece for four whistling kettles...musicians would turn the gas knobs to alter pitches in 17/4 within a 113 bar cycle. Every 11th completion of the cycle they'll blow a raspberry just for you.[/b]
observe i took your sarcasm and went a bit forward. it is not how ridiculous you find music to be, is whether someone apreciates it.
Originally posted by LemonJelloawesome you just found a corollary to my theory. or yours can be the theory and mine the corolary, not really important
I want to push the claim that indeed all people dislike at least some form of music. To help support it, I am just going to be calling music any sequence of sounds that meets with general disapproval from someone.
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Originally posted by Zahlanziyou are a little confused
you are a little confused
i talked about a distinct and short period of awe that [b]passed when other people, not me, were surprised by rap and said "this is not music". a period in which a new genre of music was viewed with surprise and skepticism before being accepted as art. which is what my point is all about. who are you to say that kettle whistling music shall not be accepted in the future?[/b]
Ha ha ha ha...
i talked about a distinct and short period of awe that [b]passed when other people, not me, were surprised by rap and said "this is not music". a period in which a new genre of music was viewed with surprise and skepticism before being accepted as art.[/b]
...they didn't like it. They didn't doubt that it was intended, marketed and sold as music and that it contained the necessary and sufficient elements to be music (unless they were idiots). They just wanted to say that it ought not to be offered as music because they thought it was rubbish.
You still can't see that you are getting muddled between what 'music' is and whether it is accepted as good or not.
who are you to say that kettle whistling music shall not be accepted in the future?
You missed the point of my joke completely. If I did write a piece for four kettle whistles, it would be considered music now. I would consider it music now. That isn't the point. The point is it will never be considered valid to define music post hoc as whatever a given person likes, at least as long as there are competent speakers. I'm afraid you show no sign of being able to understand this, so I'm going to stop trying to explain it to you.
Originally posted by Lord Sharkhave fun on your high horse. i am going to just take my clearly inferior intellect(compared to your awesome awesomness) and go listen to my kettle album, track 4.
[b]you are a little confused
Ha ha ha ha...
i talked about a distinct and short period of awe that [b]passed when other people, not me, were surprised by rap and said "this is not music". a period in which a new genre of music was viewed with surprise and skepticism before being accepted as art.[/b]
...they didn't like it. They did ...[text shortened]... gn of being able to understand this, so I'm going to stop trying to explain it to you.[/b]
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(I was going to start a separate thread but...), Rock'n'roll music. Is it the devils music? If yes how so? What defines rock? ("rock 'n' roll music"was the origonal title, later refined to just "rock" )
Is it just as hard to define as "music"?
Ok. I'll give it a shot.
1. guitars(s)
2. power chords
3. 4/4 time signatures
4. bass and drums giving out a "rocky" feel to the backbeat.
...there ya go. I've already lost myself.
Any responses welcome with open arms.
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I am sick and tired of this noise. I hate the rock drum set with the sledge hammer leg pounding down on the bass. "Power chords" with distortion I also think have been played out by about 30 years.
But, it has nothing to do with spirituality. I am just tired of rock music period.
I don't like the designation "Hip Hop". It reminds me of the Easter Bunny hippoty hopping down the bunny trail. I'd rather look into a can of worms then look at MTV.
Nothing spiritual about it. I just have no taste for it.
And Rap sounds like a cheerleader session for the permanent illiterate underclass.
One or two I found constructive.
Again, it is not a spiritual thing so much. I just have no taste for it. And I am a minority ethnically in the US.