1. Subscribersonhouse
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    13 Dec '12 11:57
    http://scitechdaily.com/homosexuality-might-develop-in-the-womb-due-to-epigenetic-changes/

    Why is there religious bias against gays if they really are born that way?

    You would be saying your god set up those folks for failure.
  2. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    13 Dec '12 12:14
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    http://scitechdaily.com/homosexuality-might-develop-in-the-womb-due-to-epigenetic-changes/

    Why is there religious bias against gays if they really are born that way?

    You would be saying your god set up those folks for failure.
    http://borngay.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=1335
  3. Houston, Texas
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    13 Dec '12 12:51
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    http://borngay.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=1335
    Interesting website. Thanks for the link.
  4. Joined
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    13 Dec '12 16:31
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    http://scitechdaily.com/homosexuality-might-develop-in-the-womb-due-to-epigenetic-changes/

    Why is there religious bias against gays if they really are born that way?

    You would be saying your god set up those folks for failure.
    What motivates work on why some people are gay? Why not work on why some people aren't gay?
  5. Standard memberSwissGambit
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    13 Dec '12 16:37
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    http://scitechdaily.com/homosexuality-might-develop-in-the-womb-due-to-epigenetic-changes/

    Why is there religious bias against gays if they really are born that way?

    You would be saying your god set up those folks for failure.
    Meh, who cares.

    Even if is 100% choice, there is still no reason to condemn gays other than "God doesn't like it", which is really just a way of saying "it makes me uncomfortable".
  6. Subscribersonhouse
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    13 Dec '12 17:32
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    Meh, who cares.

    Even if is 100% choice, there is still no reason to condemn gays other than "God doesn't like it", which is really just a way of saying "it makes me uncomfortable".
    Of course but companies like Salvation Army actively call for the death of gays.

    I heard of a story where a gay dude went into a SA hostel asking for food and I guess the dude was a bit on the fem side and they asked him if he was gay, he said yes, they go, we can't serve you here then, because you are gay.

    Blatant discrimination. Not sure if someone can sue an organization like that if it is in their charter.
  7. Joined
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    13 Dec '12 17:533 edits
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Of course but companies like Salvation Army actively call for the death of gays.

    I heard of a story where a gay dude went into a SA hostel asking for food and I guess the dude was a bit on the fem side and they asked him if he was gay, he said yes, they go, we can't serve you here then, because you are gay.

    Blatant discrimination. Not sure if someone can sue an organization like that if it is in their charter.
    Of course but companies like Salvation Army actively call for the death of gays.


    Are you referring to the following incident? At the bottom the SA offered both clarification and an apology. If this was the incident, then it seems unfair to characterize the SA as "actively call[ing] for the death of gays."


    Appearing on the “Salt and Pepper” radio program, Craibe was asked about the Salvation Army’s position on homosexuality and a section in its “Handbook of Doctrine” that cites a Biblical passage -- Romans 1:18-32 -- containing a condemnation of homosexuality. The passage mentions that in God’s eyes, “those who practice such things are deserving of death.”

    One of the radio hosts, Serena Ryan, expressed concern over the passage and asked, “How do you respond to that as part of your doctrine?”

    Craibe responded: “Well, that’s a part of our belief system. We have an alignment to the Scriptures that that’s our belief.”

    Later, Ryan again pressed Craibe on the issue “Honestly, Andrew, tell me, as a human being, how can you qualify that?”

    Craibe replied: “Well, I qualify by way of, that’s where my belief system is structured, you know? It’s what it comes down to, that salvation story, and that we can be redeemed from that. That’s my belief.”

    On Saturday, two days after the interview, Salvation Army Australia issued a statement seeking to clarify its stance on gays and lesbians.

    “This is a misunderstanding of the text referred to. The Scripture in question, viewed in its broader context, is not referring to physical death, nor is it specifically targeted at homosexual behavior. The author is arguing that no human being is without sin, all sin leads to spiritual death (separation from God), and all people therefore need a Saviour,” the statement said.

    “The Salvation Army acknowledges that the response in the interview has led to a serious misunderstanding of our teaching and that clarification should have been given during the interview.”

    The statement added: “The Salvation Army sincerely apologises to all members of the GLBT community and to all our clients, employees, volunteers and those who are part of our faith communities for the offence caused by this miscommunication.”

    http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/06/26/12422740-salvation-army-australia-apologizes-for-officials-anti-gay-comments?lite
  8. Subscribersonhouse
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    13 Dec '12 17:58
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    Are you referring to the following incident? At the bottom the SA offered both clarification and an apology. If this was the incident, then it seems unfair to characterize the SA as "actively call[ing] for the death of gays."


    Appearing on the “Salt and Pepper” radio program, Craibe was asked about the Salvation Army’s position on homosexuality ...[text shortened]... 6/12422740-salvation-army-australia-apologizes-for-officials-anti-gay-comments?lite
    They were forced to apologize I imagine. The basic policy of discrimination against the GL league is still there.
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    13 Dec '12 18:05
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    They were forced to apologize I imagine. The basic policy of discrimination against the GL league is still there.
    The basic policy of discrimination against the GL league is still there.

    Do you have actual evidence of a "basic POLICY of discrimination against the GL league"? Or only isolated incidents of SA members who have acted in a discriminatory manner?
  10. Subscribersonhouse
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    13 Dec '12 18:323 edits
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    [b]The basic policy of discrimination against the GL league is still there.

    Do you have actual evidence of a "basic POLICY of discrimination against the GL league"? Or only isolated incidents of SA members who have acted in a discriminatory manner?[/b]
    Not being gay, I don't have first hand info but I'll look online and see what I can suss out.

    Here is one piece. They cite a NY times article about their policies which I haven't read.

    http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/06/salvation-army-official-gays-deserve-death/53885/

    Another piece, a blog, in Boston listing a timeline:

    http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/blogs/bostonspirit/2012/11/is_the_salvation_army_antilgbt.html

    You know, it's funny, I have railed against the discrimination of women in religion and I have found zero retorts about it being wrong. I see the same thing with anti gay stuff too. Only Galaxy has said it is outright wrong.

    I have repeatedly shown the bible verse saying women are worth 35 shekels while men are worth 50 and get a ho-hum response but that pretty much spells it right out.
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    13 Dec '12 18:401 edit
    Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
    [b]The basic policy of discrimination against the GL league is still there.

    Do you have actual evidence of a "basic POLICY of discrimination against the GL league"? Or only isolated incidents of SA members who have acted in a discriminatory manner?[/b]
    I have to say that hearing you demand 'actual evidence', when you ducked the very same question on the corporal punishment thread, makes me smile.

    The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is a sin which deserves the death penalty. The Salvation Army is just being consistent to the words of the Bible.

    That seems pretty discriminatory to me.
  12. Subscribersonhouse
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    13 Dec '12 18:441 edit
    Originally posted by Rank outsider
    I have to say that hearing you demand 'actual evidence', when you ducked the very same question on the corporal punishment thread, makes me smile.

    The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is a sin which deserves the death penalty. The Salvation Army is just being consistent to the words of the Bible.

    That seems pretty discriminatory to me.
    What verse says they deserve death? Never mind, found one link:

    http://www.openbible.info/topics/gays

    The thing is, why would your god condemn gays when he/she/it (whatever) supposedly CREATED them in the first place?

    From what I read, they don't just choose to be gay and there are plenty of stories about showing 3 year old boys ONLY playing with dolls and never reverting to full maleness but becoming gay as a teen.

    A 3 year old doesn't just 'choose' to be gay, he doesn't know what free choice even means.

    So the whole issue is just another line of evidence, and strong evidence at that, it is all just another example of the entire edifice of the Abrahamic religions being made up by men with no inspiration from a god.

    If it was inspired by a god there would be no such discrimination against women and the gay community.
  13. Standard memberAgerg
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    13 Dec '12 18:44
    Originally posted by Rank outsider
    I have to say that hearing you demand 'actual evidence', when you ducked the very same question on the corporal punishment thread, makes me smile.

    The Bible clearly states that homosexuality is a sin which deserves the death penalty. The Salvation Army is just being consistent to the words of the Bible.

    That seems pretty discriminatory to me.
    Reveal Hidden Content
    ThinkOfOne_bot_2012

    C'mon how can you not see what I was asking? I said:
    "Do you have actual evidence of a "basic POLICY of discrimination against the GL league"? Or only isolated incidents of SA members who have acted in a discriminatory manner?"
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    13 Dec '12 18:521 edit
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    What verse says they deserve death? Never mind, found one link:

    http://www.openbible.info/topics/gays

    The thing is, why would your god condemn gays when he/she/it (whatever) supposedly CREATED them in the first place?

    From what I read, they don't just choose to be gay and there are plenty of stories about showing 3 year old boys ONLY playing with nspired by a god there would be no such discrimination against women and the gay community.
    Leviticus 20 : 13

    13 “‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

    Edit : OK you got there before me.
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    13 Dec '12 18:56
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    Not being gay, I don't have first hand info but I'll look online and see what I can suss out.

    Here is one piece. They cite a NY times article about their policies which I haven't read.

    http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/06/salvation-army-official-gays-deserve-death/53885/

    Another piece, a blog, in Boston listing a timeline:

    http://www.bo ...[text shortened]... s while men are worth 50 and get a ho-hum response but that pretty much spells it right out.
    I deserve death too. I think I am pretty safe to say that we are all going to get death too, regardless of our belief of what we deserve.

    We Christians believe there is a physical death of the body and a spiritual death of the soul. We also believe Christ can save us from the spiritual death of the soul and resurrect a new physical body for our souls at the Judgment Day of the Lord.

    HalleluYah !!! Praise the Lord! Holy! Holy! Holy!
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