New World Translation.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
does it, then perhaps you would like to point out the Hebrew for us and how that I AM is a fitting translation.

Here are links that show "I AM" is a fitting translation.

http://biblehub.com/text/exodus/3-14.htm

http://interlinearbible.org/exodus/3-14.htm

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
Here are links that show "I AM" is a fitting translation.

http://biblehub.com/text/exodus/3-14.htm

http://interlinearbible.org/exodus/3-14.htm

The Instructor

nonsense, i dont believe any of your kinks, i have demonstrated how ludicrous your translation is, simply from an English perspective and have in the past demonstrated how ludicrous it is from a Greek and Hebrew also. Fact is, Jesus was saying that he existed before Abraham, now you can accept it or continue in your ignorance, it makes absolutely no difference to me.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
nonsense, i dont believe any of your kinks, i have demonstrated how ludicrous your translation is, simply from an English perspective and have in the past demonstrated how ludicrous it is from a Greek and Hebrew also. Fact is, Jesus was saying that he existed before Abraham, now you can accept it or continue in your ignorance, it makes absolutely no difference to me.

These are not my translations. These are from the experts in Hebrew. You know that the Watchtower Society have no experts in the Hebrew language don't you?

Raymond V. Franz, in his book, Crisis of Conscience, lists the translators' names as Franz, Knorr, Schroeder and Cangas. His list omits Henschel. Franz further acknowledges his uncle Frederick Franz as the "principal translator of the Society's New World Translation" (Crisis, pg. 50).

Yet, Frederick Franz's translation ability is open to serious question.

During a court trial held in Scotland in 1954 (during the same period that the New World Translation was being made) Franz was asked if he had made himself familiar with Hebrew. His reply was "Yes." He also acknowledged under oath that he could read and follow the Bible in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, Spanish, Portuguese, German and French. The following day, during the same court trial, his linguistic abilities were put to the test.

He was asked to translate Genesis 2:4 into Hebrew. He failed the test as he was unable to do so. In fact he did not even try, but rather stated "No, I wouldn't attempt to do that."(See, Court of Session, Scotland - Douglas Walsh vs. The Right Honourable James Latham Clyde - November 1954.)

http://www.lulu.com/us/en/shop/court-of-scotland/the-1954-walsh-trial-transcript/ebook/product-834182.html

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
These are not my translations. These are from the experts in Hebrew. You know that the Watchtower Society have no experts in the Hebrew language don't you?

Raymond V. Franz, in his book, Crisis of Conscience, lists the translators' names as Franz, Knorr, Schroeder and Cangas. His list omits Henschel. Franz further acknowledges his uncle Frederick Franz -scotland/the-1954-walsh-trial-transcript/ebook/product-834182.html

The Instructor

No experts in Hebrew???? then perhaps you can tell me in your own words why 'I AM', is a better translation than 'causes to become'?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
No experts in Hebrew???? then perhaps you can tell me in your own words why 'I AM', is a better translation than 'causes to become'?

I told you that they were not my translations. I am going by what all the experts say. I don't claim to be an expert in Hebrew. Do you know if the Watchtower Society has gotten any experts in Hebrew now after the NWT has been completed? They certainly did not have any at the time it was first done.

The following link lists several translations and all of them translate that part as "I AM WHO I AM" or "I AM THAT I AM" and "I AM". There is one that translates that last part as "He who is" to be fair.

http://biblehub.com/exodus/3-14.htm

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
I told you that they were not my translations. I am going by what all the experts say. I don't claim to be an expert in Hebrew. Do you know if the Watchtower Society has gotten any experts in Hebrew now after the NWT has been completed? They certainly did not have any at the time it was first done.

The following link lists several translations and al art as "He who is" to be fair.

http://biblehub.com/exodus/3-14.htm

The Instructor

no tell me in your own words, why I AM is a better translation than 'causes to become', you have said that it is, so tell me why?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no tell me in your own words, why I AM is a better translation than 'causes to become', you have said that it is, so tell me why?

Even the Orthodox Jewish Bible gives the following translation:

And Elohim said unto Moshe, Eh-heh-yeh ashair Ehheh- yeh (I AM WHO I AM); and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the Bnei Yisroel, EHHEH-YEH (I AM) hath sent me unto you.

(Shemot 3:14 Orthodox Jewish Bible)

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%203&version=OJB

The instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
Even the Orthodox Jewish Bible gives the following translation:

And Elohim said unto Moshe, Eh-heh-yeh ashair Ehheh- yeh (I AM WHO I AM); and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the Bnei Yisroel, EHHEH-YEH (I AM) hath sent me unto you.

(Shemot 3:14 Orthodox Jewish Bible)

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%203&version=OJB

The instructor

so you tell me why its better than causes to become? you keep saying that it is, citing other translations is not telling us why its more accurate, is it?

Originally posted by RJHinds
Even the Orthodox Jewish Bible gives the following translation:

And Elohim said unto Moshe, Eh-heh-yeh ashair Ehheh- yeh (I AM WHO I AM); and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the Bnei Yisroel, EHHEH-YEH (I AM) hath sent me unto you.

(Shemot 3:14 Orthodox Jewish Bible)

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%203&version=OJB

The instructor

seeing that you are unable to do so, i will produce the correct translation and give the reasons why it is a more accurate translation, from the New World translation of the Holy Scriptures,

(Exodus 3:14) At this God said to Moses: “I SHALL PROVE TO BE* WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.” And he added: “This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to you.’”

*“I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.” Hebrew 'Ehyeh**, Asher Ehyeh', God’s own self-designation;

Leeser, “I WILL BE THAT I WILL BE”

Rotherham, “I Will Become whatsoever I please.”

In Greek, Ego eimi ho on, “I am The Being,” or, “I am The Existing One”; In Latin: ego sum qui sum, “I am Who I am.”

**Ehyeh comes from the Hebrew verb hayah, “become; prove to be.” Here Ehyeh is in the imperfect state, first person singular meaning “I shall become”; or, “I shall prove to be.” The reference here is not to God’s self-existence but to what he has in mind to become toward others.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
seeing that you are unable to do so, i will produce the correct translation and give the reasons why it is a more accurate translation, from the New World translation of the Holy Scriptures,

(Exodus 3:14) At this God said to Moses: “I SHALL PROVE TO BE* WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.” And he added: “This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘ ...[text shortened]... erence here is not to God’s self-existence but to what he has in mind to become toward others.

I think you will like this one better. Here is the Complete Jewish Bible in English.

God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"

Shemot - Exodus - Chapter 3 Verse 14

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9864

At the time Jesus said "I AM" He had already "become who He would become" or "Proved what He would prove to be" so there is no difference regardless of the translation. Jesus was telling the Jews "I AM that being."

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
I think you will like this one better. Here is the Complete Jewish Bible in English.

God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"

Shemot - Exodus - Chapter 3 Verse 14

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9864

At the tim the translation. Jesus was telling the Jews "I AM that being."

The Instructor

meaningless drivel, is the same Hebrew verb 'to be', the same as the one used at Exodus 3:14, no then why have you translated it as if it is, or rather why have your translators done so? and no Jesus was saying that he existed before Abraham.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
meaningless drivel, is the same Hebrew verb 'to be', the same as the one used at Exodus 3:14, no then why have you translated it as if it is, or rather why have your translators done so? and no Jesus was saying that he existed before Abraham.

Don't you understand grammar? Yes, the verb is "to be" but you would not say "I to be" when you are referring to yourself. You would say "I AM" just like Jesus did in John 8:58 and in Exodus 3:14. Jesus was saying He existed before Abraham because He was the God of Abraham. He was the God that appeared to them all as the angel or messeanger of God. And then He was appearing in human flesh at the time He told those Jews, "Before Abraham was, I AM." The person of the Father has never appeared to anyone.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
Don't you understand grammar? Yes, the verb is "to be" but you would not say "I to be" when you are referring to yourself. You would say "I AM" just like Jesus did in John 8:58 and in Exodus 3:14.

The instructor

Jesus stated that before Abraham was born he existed, its quite clear but in order to make something out of nothing that is why your silly translators have ignored the entire Greek idiom, before Abraham existed, i am, its a nonsense, you know it and I know it, if they were honest and had any integrity they should simply have translated the verse as, I existed before Abraham instead of letting their religious bias fester on Gods word. I suspect they will receive a heaver punishment for misleading people like this.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Jesus stated that before Abraham was born he existed, its quite clear but in order to make something out of nothing that is why your silly translators have ignored the entire Greek idiom, before Abraham existed, i am, its a nonsense, you know it and I know it, if they were honest and had any integrity they should simply have translated the verse as, ...[text shortened]... on Gods word. I suspect they will receive a heaver punishment for misleading people like this.

It looks to me like most of them translated it exactly the way the text had it and did not try to reword it so it made good English. That is the way I see it and it makes sense with the rest of the way I understand scripture. So I believe Jesus was who He said He was and you can believe whatever you like.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
It looks to me like most of them translated it exactly the way the text had it and did not try to reword it so it made good English. That is the way I see it and it makes sense with the rest of the way I understand scripture. So I believe Jesus was who He said He was and you can believe whatever you like.

The Instructor

meaningless self certified opinion.