Noah's Ark

Originally posted by ckoh1965
I don't remember reading about a second boat for storage purposes, unless of course there is a different version of the bible. If there is, I'd like to know where I can access it please. Thanks.

Here is my answer my friend, you know I'm Muslim, and I can tell the story according to the bible is not true. Actually I belive that the bible exists today is not the true word of GOD and so we cann't relay on it for any information.

You will ask me about Quran: I will tell you that the story exists there but no information is given about the boat, the period of the flood, or any number about anything. So simply we don't care as muslims about that. GOD said it happen and nothing more so I have no way to know how it happen, and it doesn't make difference to me actually.

By the way according to Quran the earch age is not specified and so we don't know actually when this flood happen and no muslim will assume that.

I agree with you that it doesn't make sense according to the bible specially the part about that GOD said he will not do it again and he was sorry. You will got the feeling that it was someone who was angry of GOD who wrote this part of the bible.

Originally posted by ahosyney
Here my answer my friend, you know I'm Muslim, and I can tell the story according to the bible is not true. Actually I belive that the bible exist today is not the true word of GOD and so we cann't relay on it for any information.

You will ask me about Quran: I will tell you that the story exists there but no information is given about the boat, the peri ...[text shortened]... got the feeling that it was someone who was angry of GOD who wrote this part of the bible.

I think you are missing the point of this thread. I am not complaining about the detailed information of the account. On the contrary, I am impressed with it! But the thing that is troubling me is the accuracy of the details. It seems to defy logic to me, and therefore I posted this thread in the hope that someone might come up with a viable explanation for the matters that I raised.

But now you are offering me a story that is even lacking in practically any detail whatsoever! To me that is even further from what I am looking for.

However, your post is also interesting that 'as muslims, you 'don't care about that'. I envy people like you. You are blessed with such a strong faith. A blind faith, perhaps, but still a strong faith nonetheless. I can't control myself. I want explanations... logical ones. That is what I seek here. Thanks for your help anyway.

Oh boy, it's coming to 1 am now. Really need sleep! Hopefully, tomorrow morning, I might find someone with other ideas. Good night you good people!

Originally posted by ckoh1965
I think you are missing the point of this thread. I am not complaining about the detailed information of the account. On the contrary, I am impressed with it! But the thing that is troubling me is the accuracy of the details. It seems to defy logic to me, and therefore I posted this thread in the hope that someone might come up with a viable explanation for ...[text shortened]... I want explanations... logical ones. That is what I seek here. Thanks for your help anyway.

My friend what logic you want. If you want a logical answer you should give a picture of the Arke. As I don't have the picture, and Quran didn't tell me anything about that so how can I give you an answer to your question. I don't know when this happen so I don't know how many species of animal exists at that time. So I can't give a logical answer because I don't have enough information.

If I don't have a logical explaination for this does it make a blind faith. I don't think so. I don't have enough information about the atomic reactions for example so I can't give you any logical explination if you ask me about it. But I belive it exist because there are some others know it and proved it.

Same goes here, except that you don't belive in GOD who knows everything.

If you judge it from the Bible story I told it doesn't make sense to me too. And I belive it is not true.

Originally posted by ckoh1965
According to the bible, all but a few of the living things in the world was once killed by the great flood. Those very few who survived were Noah and his immediate family, along with male and female pairs of all the animals in the world. This is the story of Noah and the Ark. This imaginative story is very interesting, but I’d like to hear opinions on some ...[text shortened]... in from making further comments until I read the part about this so-called judgement day myself.

Have you ever heard of the book of Enoch? The great flood account is also mentioned in Enoch 67:2 it says, "At this time the angels are working with wood (making an ark) and when it is completed, I shall place my hands upon it and protect it, and the seed of life shall arise from it; and a substittute (generation) will come so that the earth will not remain empty (without inhabitants). So when you say not to give me anything in the nature of "God can do anything" what you are really asking is how this event could have unfolded devoid of God's intervention. However, I would be a fool to try and give you an explanation of a supernatural occurence devoid of the supernatural. I take it you have not reached the miracle of the parting of the Red Sea. Forget that, what about the Genesis account of the creation of life? Are these not miracles that require the hand of God?

Having said that, this does not mean, however, that one can not speculate about how God may have brought these miracles about. I think that he uses both the natural and supernatural realm to bring about miracles. For example, you question about food and water comes to mind. Using the natural world around him, God may have sent rain when they needed water and they could have lived off the sea for living creatures to eat. He could have also taken plants on board and had a garden of some kind as well as stocks of certain kinds of food that did not spoil easily. The supernatural guess is that he sent them food just as he did the children of Israel in the desert when he sent down manna from heaven. As far as the design of the ark, it is apparent that God was in complete control in regards to its design whether Noah helped the process along with the his apparent angelic companions. Thus the design of the ark was purely of supernatural origins. Noah simply went along for the ride, so to speak. It then stands to reason that if the design were of supernatural order, you and I will have trouble understanding how it would address such issues as ventiltation and congestion etc. since man could not have imagined how to do it himself. As far as your olive tree issue something comes to mind. Islands that evolve from the sea, where does their vegetation come from? How long does it take for vegetation to srping to life? Also, that particualr area would have been the last to go under water, assuming the bird retrieved the branch from a higher elevation, and the first to come out from the water. Also that area would have received the most light under water being closer to the surface. I am not saying God did not supernatural means to bring the olive branch about, but he still could have as well if he decided to. It is also painfully apparent to me that the animals were only there only to help Noah and his family during the ordeal and immediatly after the ordeal. Perhaps they drank the milk of the animals for hydration and perhaps ate their offsrping or the animals themselves once they reproduced, who is to say? However, the animals were merely a remnant of what was on the earth that we have today. It is my opinion that God later brought about the diversity that we see today.

As far as your hypothosis that God will destroy the earth like he did with the flood and thereby break his promise, did you ever consider the possibility that God may be the one watching us destroy ourselves and not us watching him destroy us? Perhaps he will return before we can destroy ourselves? It has occured to me with all of this talk of global warming that such prphesies about no water and vegitation being burned up are brought about by man and not God. Nonetheless it does not say anywhere in scritpure that God will destroy all living beings as in the great flood.

Originally posted by ahosyney
My friend what logic you want. If you want a logical answer you should give a picture of the Arke. As I don't have the picture, and Quran didn't tell me anything about that so how can I give you an answer to your question. I don't know when this happen so I don't know how many species of animal exists at that time. So I can't give a logical answer because I ...[text shortened]... the Bible story I told it doesn't make sense to me too. And I belive it is not true.

Does the creation account in Genesis make sense to you? How about giving us a logical explanation for this as well?

Here's just one site that may shed more light on the topic for you.

http://www.westarkchurchofchrist.org/library/noahsark.htm

Originally posted by ckoh1965
According to the bible, all but a few of the living things in the world was once killed by the great flood. Those very few who survived were Noah and his immediate family, along with male and female pairs of all the animals in the world. This is the story of Noah and the Ark. This imaginative story is very interesting, but I’d like to hear opinions on some ...[text shortened]... in from making further comments until I read the part about this so-called judgement day myself.

Goddunit.

Originally posted by whodey
Does the creation account in Genesis make sense to you? How about giving us a logical explanation for this as well?

Hi my friend

As I said before I don't belive that the bible is the true words of GOD. May be some parts of it is true but I don't know which parts are true and which parts are wrong. So I can't talk about the creation from Genesis.

If you want to know the story from Quran I can tell you. But it seems to me that you don't want to hear from me any more.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Here's just one site that may shed more light on the topic for you.

http://www.westarkchurchofchrist.org/library/noahsark.htm

From your site:

"Noah and 7 other people would not be able to care for that many animals.

This might be true if they were out of control or if they were all fully grown or if they were always awake or if they had no assistance from their Creator. The God who was powerful enough to destroy the earth with a massive Flood, was unquestionably able to care for those in the Ark for a year."

If that isn't "Goddunnit", I don't know what is. I'm not sure why this person bothered making a website; he ducked most of the difficult questions.

Originally posted by ahosyney
Hi my friend

As I said before I don't belive that the bible is the true words of GOD. May be some parts of it is true but I don't know which parts are true and which parts are wrong. So I can't talk about the creation from Genesis.

If you want to know the story from Quran I can tell you. But it seems to me that you don't want to hear from me any more.

Who says I don't want to hear from you? After all, I am asking questions. My point in my question is that believing in God you must beleive in some miracles of some kind. I may not be aquainted with the miracles of the Quran but you must have them, no? After all, if you did not believe in miracles you may as well be an atheist and credit man or the existence of matter for everything. Having said that, can you then analyze those miracles logically? Must they make sense to you? If they all did, I would say you have the mind of God. Can a mortal man fathom all of the mysteries and power of God?

To put it another way, today we can observe certain laws and principles of nature such as the laws of physics and chemistry etc. If there be a God, who created those laws and principles. And if he created those laws and princilpes to whom are those laws and principles subject? Now there is a bit of logic for you, no?

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
From your site:

"Noah and 7 other people would not be able to care for that many animals.

This might be true if they were out of control or if they were all fully grown or if they were always awake or if they had no assistance from their Creator. The God who was powerful enough to destroy the earth with a massive Flood, was unquesti ...[text shortened]... ure why this person bothered making a website; he ducked most of the difficult questions.

That is tantamount to saying that the earth itself is the only acceptable cause of the calamity. When the Bible records God telling Noah to join Him in the ark, I must confess an inability to describe this situation in any natural terms. 'Got me there!

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
From your site:

"Noah and 7 other people would not be able to care for that many animals.

This might be true if they were out of control or if they were all fully grown or if they were always awake or if they had no assistance from their Creator. The God who was powerful enough to destroy the earth with a massive Flood, was unquesti ...[text shortened]... ure why this person bothered making a website; he ducked most of the difficult questions.

Could you please explain how the pyramids were built? How about Stonehinge? If there be mysteries of ancient man for which there is no account, how much more the mysteries of God?

Originally posted by whodey
Who says I don't want to hear from you? After all, I am asking questions. My point in my question is that believing in God you must beleive in some miracles of some kind. I may not be aquainted with the miracles of the Quran but you must have them, no? After all, if you did not believe in miracles you may as well be an atheist and credit man or the existe ...[text shortened]... d say you have the mind of God. Can a mortal man fathom all of the mysteries and power of God?

Ok I got your point. Of course I belive of GOD , so I belive he can do miracles. But the problem is that all miracles happned many years ago. So we cann't assume that if we were there with the same knowlage we have today that we cann't explain it logicly. I belive that it happned, but I wasn't there to explain it to you.

The other point many things happen these days that would appear as mircals to old people but they appear to us as normal things because we have scine to explain it. Some take this as a prove that GOD doesn't exist. But for me it is messages from GOD. I hope you understand my point.

Originally posted by whodey

To put it another way, today we can observe certain laws and principles of nature such as the laws of physics and chemistry etc. If there be a God, who created those laws and principles. And if he created those laws and princilpes to whom are those laws and principles subject? Now there is a bit of logic for you, no?

No that's not logic that's utter crap.