Originally posted by whodeySounds like you're content to just leave things unexplained. You must agree with me that the website quoted by Freaky is a waste of time.
Could you please explain how the pyramids were built? How about Stonehinge? If there be mysteries of ancient man for which there is no account, how much more the mysteries of God?
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemHow quaint. Apparently, intellectual honesty is the monopoly of those who doubt. Shall I take your word for that, or does a more reliable source exist?
Ok, fine. So why not have some intellectual honesty and admit you're just believing the story on faith? Why quote a website with a (purported) point-by-point response to skeptical questions? Why do these questions and their responses even hold any interest for you if you've already accepted the story on faith?
Originally posted by ahosyneyBut of course, it makes perfect sense in the koran because there are no details given.
Here is my answer my friend, you know I'm Muslim, and I can tell the story according to the bible is not true. Actually I belive that the bible exists today is not the true word of GOD and so we cann't relay on it for any information.
You will ask me about Quran: I will tell you that the story exists there but no information is given about the boat, the ...[text shortened]... got the feeling that it was someone who was angry of GOD who wrote this part of the bible.
Absolutely brilliant - give that man an O level.
For those who think the Noah's ark account is factual do you believe:
1. It was accomplished without breaking the laws of physics.
or
2. At least one miracle occurred (as in the laws of physics were broken.)
If 1. then you must accept that gathering all the animals together would be impossible by all known laws so it would imply that we have a lot to learn.
If 2. then why are there so many people trying to 'prove' that the flood was possible within the realm of physics? If Harry Potter can have a tent bigger on the inside than on the outside then I don't see why God couldn't make an ark that way.
What is puzzling (if you accept the account) is why all the carefully laid evidence suggesting something else (evolution).
Originally posted by twhiteheadAh ha - I can answer that !!!!!
For those who think the Noah's ark account is factual do you believe:
1. It was accomplished without breaking the laws of physics.
or
2. At least one miracle occurred (as in the laws of physics were broken.)
If 1. then you must accept that gathering all the animals together would be impossible by all known laws so it would imply that we have a lot t ...[text shortened]... the account) is why all the carefully laid evidence suggesting something else (evolution).
It blindingly obvious (once you know) and was used by a creationist after he had been forced to accept the factuality of the fossil record:
These thing were put there by god as a test of faith.
Now, don't ask again.
Originally posted by XanthosNZAll I can tell you is that I believe all good things come from God.
What if you had a friend who played the lotto and owned a orphanage. The orphanage was going broke and he was on the verge of selling the children into slavery to pay his debts (he isn't a very nice man, why the hell are you friends with him?). He wins the jackpot the day before he is selling the kids. Did God provide a miracle to save the children?
Shoul ...[text shortened]... ry comission that their draw isn't random at all but is instead controlled by a greater power?
This does not mean, however, that the hand of God is directly responsible for all outcomes such as the evil man in your scenerio. Having said that, however, I believe that God is able to work around such evil to bring about good much like Chrsit being murdered on the cross. There is a scripture saying much to this effect. All things work together for good for those who love God and who are called according to his purpose.
Originally posted by telerionAs I said before, the truck and I were face to face coming at each other at about 60 miles/hour. Therefore, I don't see how hitting the breaks could have provided a better outcome. If I had hit the breaks or changed direction suddenly to get out of the way, I would at least think there would have been skid marks to show such a dramaitc change in direction or velocity.
Instead of slamming the brakes, you drove off the road. How is that a miracle? Now if you had woken up in a field in Belarus, that would have been miracle!
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Originally posted by twhiteheadI think that miracles do not necessarily have to break the laws of physics but of coarse they can and they have in the past such as the parting of the Red Sea. When the hand of God is overseeing a particular outcome, I would think that he just as free to use the laws of physics as he is changing around those laws. Therefore, in the account of Noahs ark I think you have a mixture.
For those who think the Noah's ark account is factual do you believe:
1. It was accomplished without breaking the laws of physics.
or
2. At least one miracle occurred (as in the laws of physics were broken.)
If 1. then you must accept that gathering all the animals together would be impossible by all known laws so it would imply that we have a lot t the account) is why all the carefully laid evidence suggesting something else (evolution).
Being a believer I see miracles every day. For example, I view each life brought into the world as a miracle of God as where the atheist merely sees random chance. As far as evolution goes, I do not question the science behind evolution, rather, I question the assumption God does not play a part in evolution. As I said before, I think God uses the known laws of physics as well as the unknown power that created those natural laws that are unknown to us. Science merely is able to study the natural laws. In regards to evolution, God may have provided natural laws for the progression of organisms that we call random chance. I think the known times God has not used the known natural laws to bring about miracles include the creation of matter and the Big Bang, the creation of life that science calls abiogenesis, and the evolution of that life that has led to man beign created. Man is a miracle because it says that God breathed life into him thus making him a triune being body, soul, spirit like himself as we were created in his image.
What baffles me are those who say they believe in God but then in the same breath say that they do not believe in miracles. Saying that there is a God is saying that there is a power behind every studiable phenomenon that you are able to percieve. By saying that you do not believe in miracles is then further saying that the power behind such phenomenon is now of no effect. Logically you would then have to assume that such a power is either now dead or had never existed to begin with. I think atheists can even agree with this statement. The existence of God = the existence of the miraculous. There is no way around it.
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Originally posted by whodeyThe flying spaghetti monster picked you up with his noodly appendages and set you down in the field...that is not a miracle btw, it happens all the time!
As I said before, the truck and I were face to face coming at each other at about 60 miles/hour. Therefore, I don't see how hitting the breaks could have provided a better outcome. If I had hit the breaks or changed direction suddenly to get out of the way, I would at least think there would have been skid marks to show such a dramaitc change in direction or velocity.
skid marks to show a dramatic change of velocity eh?...from what you are saying it seems you had three choices...
1)steer in the direction of the vehicle you have accelerated to over take and either ram it off the road or get mashed
2) slam on the anchors and get mashed
3) steer the other way
You yourself stated that you don't know how you ended up in the field and so how could you know if your change of direction was *drastic* enough to cause skid marks...perhaps you just made the correct moves on lets say autopilot, got out of the way, came to a stop & then came to your senses...it seems reasonable that the semi would be out of sight given that it was hurtling away at approx 60mph and you were over the dip on the otherside of the road...how is this miraculous?...how many times do other motorists find themselves in bad situations when through no fault of their own they actually do get mangled??? where was the miracle for them?
Originally posted by AgergLets assume you are right. What if there were no violations of the laws of physics so to speak. Does this then mean that it was not miraculous that I survived? Does the miraculous require the breaking of the natural laws of physics?
The flying spaghetti monster picked you up with his noodly appendages and set you down in the field...that is not a miracle btw, it happens all the time!
skid marks to show a dramatic change of velocity eh?...from what you are saying it seems you had three choices...
1)steer in the direction of the vehicle you have accelerated to over take and either ram i ...[text shortened]... n through no fault of their own they actually do get mangled??? where was the miracle for them?
Originally posted by whodeyso God just changes the laws as and when he chooses then...well that certainly clears this one up then 🙄
I think that miracles do not necessarily have to break the laws of physics but of coarse they can and they have in the past such as the parting of the Red Sea. When the hand of God is overseeing a particular outcome, I would think that he just as free to use the laws of physics as he is changing around those laws. Therefore, in the account of Noahs ark I th ...[text shortened]... statement. The existence of God = the existence of the miraculous. There is no way around it.
hey, do you reckon that if I pray enough he'll make it so I can fly?...I want to be bullet proof too but don't really want my composition to change...do you reckon he could just make it so that things that would hurt me just bounce harmlessly away?
Originally posted by whodeyIf you had slammed on the breaks, there would have undoubtedly been skid marks. If you simply swerved away (the most likely case) and off the road, then there is a good chance that skid marks were not left behind. I really don't see a miracle here, only a good outcome to a potential disaster.
As I said before, the truck and I were face to face coming at each other at about 60 miles/hour. Therefore, I don't see how hitting the breaks could have provided a better outcome. If I had hit the breaks or changed direction suddenly to get out of the way, I would at least think there would have been skid marks to show such a dramaitc change in direction or velocity.
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Originally posted by whodeyDoes the miraculous require the breaking of the natural laws of physics?
Lets assume you are right. What if there were no violations of the laws of physics so to speak. Does this then mean that it was not miraculous that I survived? Does the miraculous require the breaking of the natural laws of physics?
erm...yes
Does this then mean that it was not miraculous that I survived?
erm...yes, of the many people that *do* die...you were one that didn't...you were lucky!