Originally posted by DoctorScribblesWhy do you want priests to leave the Church? I thought you simply wanted the Church to stop institutional protection of criminals - not destroy the Church altogether. Or is that what you really want? Why don't you just be honest for a change, Scribbles?
I don't see why. Priests can find occupations outside of the church, and all that money can still be transferred to the needy without having to go through an evil middleman.
When I meet an "evil middleman", I'll let you know.
Originally posted by lucifershammerYou keep skirting the whole issue. The catholic church is guilty of HIDING criminals until they are shamed into admiting that things happened.
Why do you want priests to leave the Church? I thought you simply wanted the Church to stop institutional protection of criminals - not destroy the Church altogether. Or is that what you really want? Why don't you just be honest for a change, Scribbles?
When I meet an "evil middleman", I'll let you know.
You have nothing but a "look the other way" attitude towards it.
I just lost any respect I may have had for you.
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Originally posted by lucifershammerYou are exhibiting paranoia of the sort I see in Ivanhoe. What motive could I possibly have for wanting to destroy the Church as an end in itself? It doesn't make sense.
Why do you want priests to leave the Church? I thought you simply wanted the Church to stop institutional protection of criminals - not destroy the Church altogether. Or is that what you really want? Why don't you just be honest for a change, Scribbles?
When I meet an "evil middleman", I'll let you know.
As long as the leaders of the Church continue to do evil, it should be abandoned by all good parties, rather than voluntarily supported by them. This is all I'm asking for. It is a solution that is completely in the hands of good people and is certain to result in the elimination of the institutionalized atrocities.
Why wouldn't you want innocent priests to leave the Church? You've given no good reason. If they are good people, they do not need the support of the evil institution to do good. Plenty of good non-Catholic charities exist. Why do you insist on supporting the evil one?
It's not like you would need to abandon your religious beliefs in order to do so, unless they are so shallow that the actual, current, physical implementation of Christ's rock upon the earth is an essential component of your spirituality.
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesWhat motive could I possibly have for wanting to destroy the Church as an end in itself?
You are exhibiting paranoia of the sort I see in Ivanhoe. What motive could I possibly have for wanting to destroy the Church as an end in itself? It doesn't make sense.
As long as the leaders of the Church continue to do evil, it should be abandoned by all good parties, rather than voluntarily supported by them. This is all I'm asking for. ...[text shortened]... ementation of Christ's rock upon the earth is an essential component of your spirituality.
How am I supposed to know? Yet that's what you're advocating. Whether it's an end in itself or a means to some other end I don't know.
As long as the leaders of the Church continue to do evil, it should be abandoned by all good parties, rather than voluntarily supported by them.
Baby and bathwater, again. Yes, some leaders of the Church do evil and that should be rightly condemned. But the vast majority do not.
Why wouldn't you want innocent priests to leave the Church?
Because the spiritual good they achieve (you don't believe in any such, but we do) cannot be achieved if they aren't priests in union with the Church.
Plenty of good non-Catholic charities exist. Why do you insist on supporting the evil one?
Quite simply - because it isn't "evil". It isn't perfect, and there are evils that happen under its umbrella - but that doesn't negate the good (spiritual and temporal) it achieves.
It's not like you would need to abandon your religious beliefs in order to do so, unless they are so shallow that the actual, current, physical implementation of Christ's rock upon the earth is an essential component of your spirituality.
It is. And it's not "shallow".
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Originally posted by KnightWulfeI'm sorry to hear that. I can only say that I'm not "looking the other way". I just don't want to join a public witch-hunt.
You keep skirting the whole issue. The catholic church is guilty of HIDING criminals until they are shamed into admiting that things happened.
You have nothing but a "look the other way" attitude towards it.
I just lost any respect I may have had for you.
Originally posted by lucifershammerRefer to page 2, first post.
Why do you want priests to leave the Church? I thought you simply wanted the Church to stop institutional protection of criminals - not destroy the Church altogether. Or is that what you really want? Why don't you just be honest for a change, Scribbles?
When I meet an "evil middleman", I'll let you know.
Of course he wants to destroy it altogether.
Now, that in itself doesn't really upset me too much. He has a right to his own opinion, and that's what he believes. The fact that he tries to cover it up, though, does upset me. He just doesn't want to come out and say it. Instead, he'll throw out accusations of us being crazy and paranoid.
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesYou're funny.
You are exhibiting paranoia of the sort I see in Ivanhoe. What motive could I possibly have for wanting to destroy the Church as an end in itself?
No, seriously, you make me laugh. You should be a comedian...
Look. Just stop the BS and come out and say it. I won't think of you as less of a man. I promise.
Of course, we're all paranoid. 🙄
You know, with these type of counter-accusations of paranoia, you make FOX News look like BBC. Fair and balanced my a**.
You may be able to fool the "real" idiots on these forums (although I doubt it, since most of them lean towards the "religious" side anyway), but you certainly won't fool the rest of us.
Just come out of the closet, you'll feel better. I know you know what I mean. You're smarter than most here, you just hang out with the wrong "pack". That's OK. It's where you like to be.
Just don't insult the rest of us here who aren't in the same "pack".
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Originally posted by lioyank[Edit: Forget it. My post was, as usual, irrelevant to the quote.]
LOL
But of course. That way, not only will there be no more rapes, there will be no more church.
If you don't find institutionalized religions to be "your thing", that's fine. But why should others have to suffer? There are some in this world that need a dream to believe in. They have nothing else in this world. Let them dream. Let them have their crut ...[text shortened]... t away, and THEN what type of a world would you live in? Think about that before you answer.
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesDoctorQuibbels: " What motive could I possibly have for wanting to destroy the Church as an end in itself? It doesn't make sense."
You are exhibiting paranoia of the sort I see in Ivanhoe. What motive could I possibly have for wanting to destroy the Church as an end in itself? It doesn't make sense.
As long as the leaders of the Church continue to do evil, it should be abandoned by all good parties, rather than voluntarily supported by them. This is all I'm asking for. ...[text shortened]... ementation of Christ's rock upon the earth is an essential component of your spirituality.
😀 😵 😀
Originally posted by lucifershammerYou are not being asked to walk out on the church. First, you need to suck up and admit the church is not what it should be. Not even close. You could take a stand and make a difference.... EVERY cause was started by one person who had the balls to stand up and say it was wrong and have the courage to lead others in the good and true cause, even if it is bucking the current system. Given that the current church system is WRONG, someone who is within that church should take a stand and fight for that which is good and true. I am not talking violent revolution either, so dont go there.
Do you think I'm doing nothing because I refuse to pontificate from my armchair and because I refuse to walk out on the Church?
If you really love God and Jesus and the Church, then you need to make it what it professes to be, not the excuse for what it is now. if you believe that much and that strongly, other will follow you and then it wont just be you anymore.
Until then, yea, you are pontificating from your armchair.
Originally posted by KnightWulfeLet me ask this straight out - do you think you know enough about what I do when I'm not posting on RHP to say that I'm not "taking a stand" or other things you want me to do?
You are not being asked to walk out on the church. First, you need to suck up and admit the church is not what it should be. Not even close. You could take a stand and make a difference.... EVERY cause was started by one person who had the balls to stand up and say it was wrong and have the courage to lead others in the good and true cause, even if it i ...[text shortened]... then it wont just be you anymore.
Until then, yea, you are pontificating from your armchair.
Yes, I'm not about to join a chorus of voices attacking the Church when I'm convinced that most of those voices have no desire to preserve or sanctify the Church. This week the choir will sing about sex abuse scandals, next week it will be about the Inquisition, the week after that it will be about abortion, or something else. It's clear to me that balanced reporting isn't forthcoming from this crowd, so I attempt to provide the counter-weight.
I have no problems facing up to the Church's errors. That doesn't mean I have to scream it off the rooftop every chance I get. That might earn me brownie points with a certain class of people, but it's not going to achieve anything more than the coverage these issues already have received.
On the other hand, it's far too easy to forget that there's so much good the Church does (and has done). It's also easy to forget that many things alleged about the Church are either exaggerated or downright false. Even Catholics can forget what their faith, community and Church means in the midst of all this hysteria; I see my role as reminding them. I may not do a great or even good job of that, but that is my assessment of what the Church needs right now.
As I said earlier, when I feel that the coverage of the Church is more balanced and honest from the other side, you'll find my public views more to your liking.