05 Mar 08
1 edit
Originally posted by stokerNo, I mean what verses explicitly state it? I've seen verses where I can see where people might have inferred it, but I don't remember seeing anything that states that it is necessarily so. If you know of any, please give them.
the scripture itself
06 Mar 08
1 edit
With there being so many who believe that God is omnipotent and omniscient, why isn't anyone able to provide the verses to back it?
People seem to take it on word of mouth that this is true. If it isn't and say that God doesn't necessarily know every detail about the future, it solves the "free will / omniscient God" issue.
07 Mar 08
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI can't quote chapeter and verse, but the ones I remember that stand out are where God knows the # of hairs on our heads (omniscient), He can create sons of Israel out of rocks (omnipotent), and Jesus could call legions of angels to rescue Him if He had so desired in Gethsemane.
No, I mean what verses explicitly state it? I've seen verses where I can see where people might have inferred it, but I don't remember seeing anything that states that it is necessarily so. If you know of any, please give them.
07 Mar 08
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI will ask my pastor and get back to you.
With there being so many who believe that God is omnipotent and omniscient, why isn't anyone able to provide the verses to back it?
People seem to take it on word of mouth that this is true. If it isn't and say that God doesn't necessarily know every detail about the future, it solves the "free will / omniscient God" issue.
07 Mar 08
2 edits
Originally posted by PinkFloydhttp://www.rim.org/muslim/JesusisGod.htm
I will ask my pastor and get back to you.
Omnipresent:
As Used of God:
Psalm 139:7-12
Proverbs 15:3
As Used of Jesus:
Matthew 18:20
Matthew 28:20
Ephesians 3:17; 4:10
Omniscient:
As Used of God:
I Kings 8:39
Jeremiah 17:9,10,16
As Used of Jesus:
Matthew 11:27
Luke 5:4-6
John 2:25
John 16:30
John 21:17
Acts 1:24
Omnipotent:
As Used of God:
Isaiah 40:10-31, 18
Isaiah 45:5-13
As Used of Jesus:
Matthew 28:18
Mark 1:29-34
John 10:18
Jude 24
Eternal:
As Used of God:
Genesis 1:1
Psalm 102:26,27
Habakkuk 3:6
As Used of Jesus:
John 6:62
John 8:58
John 16:28
Isaiah 9:6
Micah 5:2
07 Mar 08
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneThe equivalent words used in the Bible are 'All Powerful' & 'Almighty'.
What is the scriptural evidence that God is necessarily omnipotent and/or omniscient?
Here are a couple:
REV 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the ALMIGHTY.
GEN 35:11 And God said unto him, I am God ALMIGHTY: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
07 Mar 08
2 edits
Originally posted by PinkFloydLet's say God is aware of all things in detail as they are happening such as the number of hairs on everyone's head. Does this necessarily mean that God knows the complete future? Let's say God is able to do all manner of things that are well beyond our abilities and / or comprehension. Does this necessarily mean that God knows the complete future?
I can't quote chapeter and verse, but the ones I remember that stand out are where God knows the # of hairs on our heads (omniscient), He can create sons of Israel out of rocks (omnipotent), and Jesus could call legions of angels to rescue Him if He had so desired in Gethsemane.
07 Mar 08
Originally posted by RBHILLAny chance you could pull out a select few that really get to the heart of the matter and list the text here?
http://www.rim.org/muslim/JesusisGod.htm
Omnipresent:
As Used of God:
Psalm 139:7-12
Proverbs 15:3
As Used of Jesus:
Matthew 18:20
Matthew 28:20
Ephesians 3:17; 4:10
Omniscient:
As Used of God:
I Kings 8:39
Jeremiah 17:9,10,16
As Used of Jesus:
Matthew 11:27
Luke 5:4-6
John 2:25
John 16:30
John 21:17
Acts 1:24
Omnip ...[text shortened]... Habakkuk 3:6
As Used of Jesus:
John 6:62
John 8:58
John 16:28
Isaiah 9:6
Micah 5:2
07 Mar 08
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999I tend to think of "All Powerful" and "Almighty" as being more powerful than anything else, but I have to wonder if the intent was to include complete knowledge of the future. I mean, what would be the point of all this? God could move straight to judgement and skip this exercise. As a matter of fact, why create anything in the first place?
The equivalent words used in the Bible are 'All Powerful' & 'Almighty'.
Here are a couple:
REV 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the ALMIGHTY.
GEN 35:11 And God said unto him, I am God ALMIGHTY: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
07 Mar 08
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneCol.2:3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
No, I mean what verses explicitly state it? I've seen verses where I can see where people might have inferred it, but I don't remember seeing anything that states that it is necessarily so. If you know of any, please give them.
Job 36:4 For truly my words shall not be false: he that is perfect in knowledge is with thee.
Job 37:16 Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge?
Isa 40:14 With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding?
Ro 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
07 Mar 08
3 edits
Originally posted by josephwBut what of complete knowlege of the future? For whatever reason, people tend to include the complete knowledge of the future with omniscient. I don't think that these verses necessarily include that.
Col.2:3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
Job 36:4 For truly my words shall not be false: he that is perfect in knowledge is with thee.
Job 37:16 Dost thou know the balancings of the clouds, the wondrous works of him which is perfect in knowledge?
Isa 40:14 With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him ...[text shortened]... wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
07 Mar 08
Originally posted by ThinkOfOneI think you have a very good point. Most people, after thinking about it, realize that omnipotency has its limitations. No matter how omnipotent a being is, it cannot do something that is contradictory or incoherent (such as create a rock to large to lift etc)
But what of complete knowlege of the future? For whatever reason, people tend to include the complete knowledge of the future with omniscient. I don't think that these verses necessarily include that.
Surely omniscience too must be bounded, a being however omniscient, presumably has limitations. If knowledge of the future turns out to be incoherent, then maybe omniscience cannot include it.
It was suggested in another thread that God can (and does) change the future. But then what is the future? And can God predict his own future? Does that not make him a static, unchanging being?