One Question

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
An illusion?
Of what?

Freaky, the illusion is that they consider themselves irresponsible for their own decisions, and therefore claim to be under no mandate to 'choose wisely'. Furthermore, by 'exposing the illogic of the argument', they expect to not be held by it. They cannot accept the concept of free will, because to do so means that if they are wrong, then they are responsible for their own actions, something they cannot abide.

The illusion is that they think this eliminates the fine print.

Yeah, yeah, I know. They got another think coming. When they see how glorious the Kingdom of God is compared to their tiny glass worldview, I'm sure attitudes will change real quickly once they see the folly of their entire lives' worth of lame justifications and ignorance. I believe the Bible calls this "wailing and gnashing of teeth."

The worst part is that they think we're glad to think these things will happen to them. They don't even stop to think why we try so hard to get them to disavow their ignorance.

Originally posted by Suzianne
They [non-Christians?] don't even stop to think why we try so hard to get them to disavow their ignorance.

Do you think that threats of eternal torture can somehow force non-Christians to believe something that they don't believe?

Originally posted by FMF
[b]The question has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone's belief in God.

The question has everything to do with the final analysis.

In the final analysis, do you stand before God and account for your life on the basis of your own works, your own good?

Or, in the final analysis, do you stand before God with the covering of the work done on the cross on ...[text shortened]... " The clumsy way you frame this has [b]everything to do with your belief in your God figure.[/b]

The clumsy way you frame this has everything to do with your belief in your God figure.
One thing is for sure: no can ever fault your consistent adherence to objectivity.

Originally posted by googlefudge
The sensation of 'freely' making decisions is an illusion.

You might want to flesh that out a bit.
Really give it a thought and see if you can come up with something more comprehensive.
If your castle duties aren't too demanding, of course.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]One Question

God's perfect plan provides the grace gift [free] of eternal life for all who choose to claim it with an uncoerced decision to believe [place their confidence] in Christ for their salvation. What are the most compelling reasons to reject this gift?[/b]

Uncoerced? Satan does all in his power to coerce humankind. To keep humans from knowing the truth.
The most compelling reasons to reject would be natural. You can take your pick, from fear of the unknown to self preservation, lust, etc.

FMF: The clumsy way you frame this has everything to do with your belief in your God figure.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
One thing is for sure: no can ever fault your consistent adherence to objectivity.

You start a post with "The question has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone's belief in God" and then every single thing you say in your attempt to address the question is based squarely on your belief in God.

Originally posted by FMF
You start a post with [b]"The question has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone's belief in God" and then every single thing you say in your attempt to address the question is based squarely on your belief in God.[/b]

You're confusing knowledge with confidence or trust.
Everyone knows God exists.
Some put their confidence and trust in Him, while a few don't: they put their confidence in themselves.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
You're confusing knowledge with confidence or trust.
Everyone knows God exists.

I am aware that this is your belief.

But I maintain it is clumsy of you, when discussing stuff with non-Christians, to claim that your beliefs about the two options you perceive there to be regarding "salvation" and regarding your God figure have "nothing whatsoever to do with anyone's belief in God".

Do you think that threats of eternal torture can somehow force me to believe something that I don't believe?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
You're confusing knowledge with confidence or trust.
Everyone knows God exists.
Some put their confidence and trust in Him, while a few don't: they put their confidence in themselves.

Everyone knows God exists.
Seriously!? You actually believe this to be true!??

Wow ... even though I also happen to know that the Christian notion of "God" is too damned primitive/retarded to be credible; I somehow know it exists too 😕

Originally posted by Borinquen
Uncoerced? Satan does all in his power to coerce humankind. To keep humans from knowing the truth.
The most compelling reasons to reject would be natural. You can take your pick, from fear of the unknown to self preservation, lust, etc.

Hi, Borinquen. Welcome to Red Hot Pawn. "Satan does all in his power to coerce humankind." Absolutely; the great deceiver has counterfeited absolute truth since the garden. "... an uncoerced decision [uncoerced by God who respects human volition which coexists with God's Sovereignty in time] to believe [place their confidence] in Christ for their salvation".

Originally posted by Suzianne
Freaky, the illusion is that they consider themselves irresponsible for their own decisions, and therefore claim to be under no mandate to 'choose wisely'. Furthermore, by 'exposing the illogic of the argument', they expect to not be held by it. [i]They cannot accept the concept of free will, because to do so means that if they are wrong, then they are re ...[text shortened]... them. They don't even stop to think why we try so hard to get them to disavow their ignorance.

Nope. Wrong on all counts. Please don't try to explain what we/I think as you
evidently have no clue whatsoever. It simply makes you look ignorant and stupid.

Now, are you prepared to listen to why it is that those of us who believe that
libertarian free will doesn't exist and cannot exist?

Or are you to wrapped up in your own prejudices to accept anything else?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
You might want to flesh that out a bit.
Really give it a thought and see if you can come up with something more comprehensive.
If your castle duties aren't too demanding, of course.

No, that said all I wanted to say to you on the subject.

You're too stupid to understand anything more detailed.

Originally posted by Agerg
[b]Everyone knows God exists.
Seriously!? You actually believe this to be true!??

Wow ... even though I also happen to know that the Christian notion of "God" is too damned primitive/retarded to be credible; I somehow know it exists too 😕[/b]

I don't know if he really believes that...

But he claims it to be true at every opportunity, and uses it as a central
plank of many of his arguments.

The problem of course is that he's not prepared to take our word for what
we believe and think, so every time we tell him that he's wrong and that
we do not in fact 'know, think, or believe' that god/s exist he just thinks we
are lying, or [self] deluded.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH

Everyone knows God exists.

Actually, nobody does. Some people think they do, and some of those think they know what everybody else knows, which is amusing.

Originally posted by googlefudge
I don't know if he really believes that...

But he claims it to be true at every opportunity, and uses it as a central
plank of many of his arguments.

The problem of course is that he's not prepared to take our word for what
we believe and think, so every time we tell him that he's wrong and that
we do not in fact 'know, think, or believe' that god/s exist he just thinks we
are lying, or [self] deluded.

I think if we could take a poll of theists here, the belief that "everyone knows God exists" would poll pretty high, and maybe even win a majority. This belief is perhaps the thing that has surprised me most on this forum. I think it is just a coping mechanism. When you lose every debate, but don't want to change your position, the only alternative is to believe that your opponents are unserious people for one or more reasons (they are lying, evil, self-deluded, trolling, etc.).