1. Standard memberscottishinnz
    Kichigai!
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    24 Nov '06 22:56
    YouTube

    Well?
  2. Joined
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    24 Nov '06 23:13
    so you'll not submit to the will of God then?
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    24 Nov '06 23:22
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wcG3yoSAdk

    Well?
    Yes he is right, but who say that the OT is the word of GOD? Does it really describe GOD? Or it is written by human to deviate from GOD?

    Any body can prove that...

    The problem of Dawkinians is that the see GOD only througth the OT, which I agree cann't be GOD.
  4. Standard memberNemesio
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    24 Nov '06 23:29
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    The problem of Dawkinians is that the see GOD only througth the OT, which I agree cann't be GOD.
    The problem with any religious fanatic is that they think that they have
    the one, right, true and correct book through which they see God.
    Moslems point to OT atrocities, Christians point to Koran atrocities.

    And the circle jerk goes on and on, but they both share the cracker.

    Nemesio
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    24 Nov '06 23:33
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wcG3yoSAdk

    Well?
    And I suppose Dawkins went to all the trouble of consulting theologians, looking up commentaries, and objectively try to understand why Christians and Jews repeatedly reconcile this god with love and justice?
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    24 Nov '06 23:371 edit
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    The problem with any religious fanatic is that they think that they have
    the one, right, true and correct book through which they see God.
    Moslems point to OT atrocities, Christians point to Koran atrocities.

    And the circle jerk goes on and on, but they both share the cracker.

    Nemesio
    I didn't assume anything here, I didn't see any Athetic talks about Quran, or what it say. They attack GOD through the Bible. And if I'm in their place I will do the same.

    I would be happy to discuss GOD exitance through Quran if any one did read Quran or know anything about it.

    Yes I belive that I know the truth , but don't you think that every man, beliving on GOD or not , think he has the truth.

    Those who don't belive in GOD think they have the truth too. And they talk to people like me as if we have a mental problem.

    Any way I would like to discuss GOD through the Islamic faith if you want , and tell me exactly what your point. But I know you will not do that because you think I'm just a fanatic religous man who don't use his mind.
  7. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    Royal Oak, MI
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    24 Nov '06 23:44
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    I didn't assume anything here, I didn't see any Athetic talks about Quran, or what it say. They attack GOD through the Bible. And if I'm in their place I will do the same.

    I would be happy to discuss GOD exitance through Quran if any one did read Quran or know anything about it.

    Yes I belive that I know the truth , but don't you think that every man, ...[text shortened]... ill not do that because you think I'm just a fanatic religous man who don't use his mind.
    People who don't believe in god come to that conclusion because they know they do NOT have the truth. Nor do they believe that theists have the truth either, which is precisely why they're atheists in the first place. If you go around pretending that you have the truth, then of course you should be treated as though you have a mental problem.
  8. Standard memberNemesio
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    24 Nov '06 23:44
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    I didn't assume anything here, I didn't see any Athetic talks about Quran, or what it say. They attack GOD through the Bible. And if I'm in their place I will do the same.

    This is precisely my point. Here, athesists and moslems agree:
    'The OT God is a False God and the writers don't know a cottonpicking
    thing.'

    But, when the atheists turn and start to attack the Koran, suddenly
    the Moslem says, 'No, no, no, friend, you've misunderstood the Koran.
    Let me help you.'

    Similarly, the Christian and atheist team up against the Koran and are
    the best of friends...until the atheist starts to poke at the Jewish and
    Christian Scriptures, then the Christian says, 'No, no, no, friend, you've
    misunderstood God's Word. Let me help you.'

    Both Christians and Moslems hold hands with the atheist when they
    attack the other's faith. But only until it comes time to critically evaluate
    their own Sacred Book. Then, all of a sudden, the atheist is confused,
    or 'lost.'

    Yes I belive that I know the truth , but don't you think that every man, beliving on GOD or not , think he has the truth.

    The difference is only important if you are willing to change your
    understanding of truth if provided with evidence which suggests the
    contrary.

    For example, can you, ahosyney, fathom a circumstance where you
    would reject a portion of the Koran as not representative of God's
    perspective, where you would say, 'Yes, it is in the Koran, but, no, it
    is not God's Word?'

    Nemesio
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    24 Nov '06 23:52
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    [b]I didn't assume anything here, I didn't see any Athetic talks about Quran, or what it say. They attack GOD through the Bible. And if I'm in their place I will do the same.


    This is precisely my point. Here, athesists and moslems agree:
    'The OT God is a False God and the writers don't know a cottonpicking
    thin ...[text shortened]... say, 'Yes, it is in the Koran, but, no, it
    is not God's Word?'

    Nemesio[/b]
    In both points you assumed something that didn't happen.

    No one attacked GOD througth Quran to see my reaction. And you didn't prove that any part of the Quran is not the word of GOD to see my reaction.

    Although I will be happy that you show me both. But don't excpect me to accept what you say because you just said it. You should have evidences to show me what you see is true. And in that case you can judge my reaction.

    But assuming my reaction to something in a very specific way is not good way of debating.
  10. Standard memberRBHILL
    Acts 13:48
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    24 Nov '06 23:52
    Originally posted by scottishinnz
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wcG3yoSAdk

    Well?
    And Richard you not a bully?
  11. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
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    24 Nov '06 23:57
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    But assuming my reaction to something in a very specific way is not good way of debating.
    I didn't assume anything; you agreed with the atheist on his attack
    of the OT as demonstrating that the Jewish Scripture is not Divinely
    authored.

    I am also assuming nothing (for you have said it before) in suggesting
    that you consider the Koran Divinely authored.

    I am assuming nothing in noting that you agreed with the atheist's
    critical reaction to Jewish Scripture. The only assumption that I am
    making is that you will disagree with the same atheist when he then
    turns to your Koran and (using the same methodology) pokes holes
    in it as well.

    If you are willing to concede that parts of the Koran are written by men
    and do not reflect God's mind, then I apologize for the assumption.

    Nemesio
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    25 Nov '06 00:081 edit
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    I didn't assume anything; you agreed with the atheist on his attack
    of the OT as demonstrating that the Jewish Scripture is not Divinely
    authored.

    I am also assuming nothing (for you have said it before) in suggesting
    that you consider the Koran Divinely authored.

    I am assuming nothing in noting that you agreed with the atheist's
    critical reaction ...[text shortened]... ritten by men
    and do not reflect God's mind, then I apologize for the assumption.

    Nemesio
    I welcome any one to show me his point. But do you excepect me to accept it without a prove.

    I will not accept any un-proven thing. If you prove it I will accept it.

    You say that there is parts of Quran written by man, show me those parts and why you think soo. And I will think about it with you.

    I read the Quran several times, and I memorize many parts of it (I used to memorize it all). So far I don't see any part that could be written by humman.

    And I also read the bible. And I compared between both.

    But so far there are some parts of the Bible appeare to me cann't be the words GOD. Besides Christians themselves know that there are many parts of the Bible are written by Humans, and other parts has no known writter. So here I have many reasons to belive that it is not the words of GOD (No only because Quran say that, although it is enough).

    I'm waiting for you to show me where do you think Human added words to Quran, or why GOD according to Islam cann't be GOD. !!!
  13. Joined
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    25 Nov '06 00:14
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    I will not accept any un-proven thing.
    The Quran has never been proven to be the word of god, are you saying you don't accept that the Quran is the word of god?
  14. Joined
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    25 Nov '06 00:191 edit
    Originally posted by Ian68
    The Quran has never been proven to be the word of god, are you saying you don't accept that the Quran is the word of god?
    It is proven but you don't know.

    It is proven to every Muslim living today which are considered 1/6 of humans today. If it is not proven to you then you have to ask a Muslim to prove it to you or prove to the Muslim that it is not the word of GOD.

    Did you read it or any part of it before?
  15. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    25 Nov '06 00:44
    Originally posted by ahosyney
    It is proven but you don't know.

    It is proven to every Muslim living today which are considered 1/6 of humans today. If it is not proven to you then you have to ask a Muslim to prove it to you or prove to the Muslim that it is not the word of GOD.

    Did you read it or any part of it before?
    It cannot be 'proven' just to Muslims. If it isn't proven to everyone, then it isn't proven at all. The fact that the Quran is ONLY accepted by the Muslims as being the word of god means that it isn't proven. It is your contention that the Quran is the word of god, but the case obviously remains open. Every religion maintains their holy book is the word of god. It is possible that they're all wrong except one, but is far more likely that they're all wrong.
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