OT God

Originally posted by ahosyney
[b]It shows that everything written in the Qu'ran had been figured out before. Whilst Muhammed may not have read the Greek work, it seems likely that he knew about it. Anyway, MAN had already figured it out once - he could do it again. The fact that man figured it out, even just once, proves Gods are not necessary to explain the origin of that knowledge. ...[text shortened]... ng or not. It is up to you.


Watch it again and complete... But don't waste your time !!!

Really! I was merely talking about the knowledge of the spherical earth. You know this fine. Stop being obtuse. Your assertions are merely those of a religious person getting offended that I'm pointing out the fallacies in your religion.

I just watched the video. I was writing my critique as I watched it. I really don't think I'm wrong.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
he strung a bunch of words together, sounded intelligent, and people clapped. those people are ignorant as he is; i bet he was describing himself.

Feel free to actually rebut his statements with anything concrete. Perhaps you are denying his infanticidal tendencies?

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Really! I was merely talking about the knowledge of the spherical earth. You know this fine. Stop being obtuse. Your assertions are merely those of a religious person getting offended that I'm pointing out the fallacies in your religion.

I just watched the video. I was writing my critique as I watched it. I really don't think I'm wrong.

I'm not offended, I just want our discussion to be objective. If you say "Everything in the Quran is taken from Greek", is not correct. And when the Quran indecate that the earth has a spherical shape it deosn't mean it is taken from Greek.

But any way. I wish you have time to complete the video and read the Artical. I'm not angry or offended, I will be happy if you show me I'm wrong. But also I want you to be objective, not only aiming to prove your point.

Note: So far you didn't show any fallacy about my religon. Showing that Greeks know the earth was spheric doesn't mean that Quran is wrong. It is not part of my faith to belive that Quran is the only source of science. Quran is not a scientific Book. But is have some scientific notes. Proveing that it has a scientific problems, or errors may imply fallacy, and that is the challange that I talked about before.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Feel free to actually rebut his statements with anything concrete. Perhaps you are denying his infanticidal tendencies?

i realize that to some people god didnt make good choices in the ot but im sure theres a reason for it, or some kind of explanation.

Originally posted by ahosyney
I'm not offended, I just want our discussion to be objective. If you say "Everything in the Quran is taken from Greek", is not correct. And when the Quran indecate that the earth has a spherical shape it deosn't mean it is taken from Greek.

But any way. I wish you have time to complete the video and read the Artical. I'm not angry or offended, I will be ...[text shortened]... lems, or errors may imply fallacy, and that is the challange that I talked about before.

Absolutely, but the claim that everyone thought that the earth was flat, not spherical, prior to the writing of the Qu'ran is simply false. The fact that this fact (spherical earth) had been elucidated prior to the writing of the Qu'ran suggests that its entirely possible that it could have been deduced a second time, or the knowledge could have been transferred between cultures, as so often happens.

The same is true of all the knowledge claimed about human physiology, and many other subjects. In short, from what I've seen, there's nothing "new" in the Qu'ran. Certainly nothing that "proves" the existence of God.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
i realize that to some people god didnt make good choices in the ot but im sure theres a reason for it, or some kind of explanation.

So proud of your ignorance and ambivalence, aren't you?


Edit; why not watch the entire lecture and, especially, the Q&A session. The URL is http://richarddawkins.net/home

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Absolutely, but the claim that everyone thought that the earth was flat, not spherical, prior to the writing of the Qu'ran is simply false. The fact that this fact (spherical earth) had been elucidated prior to the writing of the Qu'ran suggests that its entirely possible that it could have been deduced a second time, or the knowledge could have been t ...[text shortened]... e's nothing "new" in the Qu'ran. Certainly nothing that "proves" the existence of God.

How long time did you spend study Quran. 1 hour, less , or more.

Do you consider this enough time to say that it didn't introduce anything new? Are you objective this way?

As I said the video may be wrong in this Claim (Although the video was talking only about the environment where the prophet raised not the whole world) but that is not what the Quran claim.

And you still talking one point (spherical earth) to Judge everything. Are you objective this way?

What do you mean but "new", new from what. It is not a scientific Book to give new discoveries. Althougth it contains some discoveries relative to the time it is revealed.

Originally posted by ahosyney
How long time did you spend study Quran. 1 hour, less , or more.

Do you consider this enough time to say that it didn't introduce anything new? Are you objective this way?

As I said the video may be wrong in this Claim (Although the video was talking only about the environment where the prophet raised not the whole world) but that is not what the Qura ...[text shortened]... new discoveries. Althougth it contains some discoveries relative to the time it is revealed.

Feel free to give me some other "prophesy" then, and I'll show it to be false.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Feel free to give me some other "prophesy" then, and I'll show it to be false.

Prophesy !!!

If your target from this debate is just to prove that I'm wrong. Then you are really wasting your time. Not because I refuse the Idea I might be wrong. But because you are the one who refuse to be wrong.

Have a nice time.

is he degrading God or praising him?

Originally posted by ahosyney
I didn't mean that. All what I said it was a challange written inside the Quran that it will not change.

Untill now it didn't happen. That is my point., and it is the last thing I said!!!

You are misunderstanding me.

Both Jews and Christians make the same claim about the Hebrew Scriptures. As I said, the
Semitic culture -- those which inspired the OT and the Koran -- placed great pride in the
continuity of tradition.

Your claim for the Koran is not unique.

Here were your claims:
1- To find a mistake inside the Book. The book is written in Arabic. There is no single grammer problem in the Quran. Now it is your turn to find any scientefic mistake.

Here are three scientific questions: 1) In how many days was the universe created according to the
Koran?; 2) Was the earth created before or after the skies?; and 3) How does the earth interact
with the sun on a daily basis?

2- To come with a book close to it. To cover all aspects of human life. And also in the way it is written.

What if I said 'War and Peace,' you could say that you disagree. What if I said 'The Odyssey,'
you could disagree. What if I said 'The Gospel of Saint Luke,' you could disagree. There is no way
to convince someone that a 'book close to it.' And, while there are many books that cover all
aspects of human life, you will deny that they do the same as the Koran.

This claim is untestable because you fail to discretely define the terms. You can move the goalposts
at any time.

3- To manage to corrupte it or modify it. The Quran remain for 1400 years without a single modification.

As I said before, this claim is hardly remarkable for Holy Books.

Nemesio

Originally posted by ahosyney
Prophesy !!!

If your target from this debate is just to prove that I'm wrong. Then you are really wasting your time. Not because I refuse the Idea I might be wrong. But because you are the one who refuse to be wrong.

Have a nice time.

Its nothing to do with you. You seem to think that the Qu'ran is infallible, as a work of God should be. In which case it should be completely consistent with everything that modern science finds. I am not saying that it isn't, but I am saying that this persons claims (for example, that the Qu'ran revolutionised the way that humanity looked at the flat earth - spherical earth thing) just aren't true. The narrator of that video you cited specifically says that this (spherical earth) was new information, and thus must be from God. I proved that to be wrong - it was known long, long before the Qu'ran was ever written, and is thus more likely to actually derive from Greek knowledge than from God.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
is he degrading God or praising him?

You think killing children is praiseworthy? You need mental help.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
You think killing children is praiseworthy? You need mental help.

i didnt read any of it, i just watched that clip.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
i didnt read any of it, i just watched that clip.

Perhaps you're not well read enough to know that your God "killed all the first born"? I doubt it though. Pray tell, what sin did the newborn commit to deserve to be murdered? Perhaps "original sin" is enough???

Any God which can't even live up to human standards deserves nothing but contempt. I'm a billion time better than any God that kills innocents "for the sins of the parent".


Seriously, though, Ecstreme, you seem to me to be a good kid, and you're better than this make believe. Please, please, don't try to defend this (imaginery) murderer any more.