Panspermia

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Why thank you JB. No I have not come across Charles Tart before. His work seems very measured and thorough and no doubt a very good place to start researching psycic phenomena (if the introduction and reviews are anything to go by.)
BTW how did you know my name was Charlie? I haven't written you a personal message, have I? Anyway ,its all good. I was just wondering, 's all.

You said I could call you Chalie on another thread somewhere. I said holy crapopoly and you may have thought I was warping holy karoly. That is not the case though as I say holy crapoly quite a bit.

Originally posted by Lord Shark
Try as you might, you won't tempt me into the water. Besides, think of the poor horses, they're not good swimmers you know.

More seriously, I also mean in the real world. You have your interpretation of your experiences, other people have a different way of assessing things, which you don't buy into. Therefore, they cannot give you a 'good' reason for ...[text shortened]... tion of 'good'*

* Not to be confused with more general forms of moral good of course.

The underlying current I pick up from you is that I'm not as open-minded as I sometimes claim. Well I do try to be-but thats just words on a screen and is really up to me to prove to myself that I am.

As I said b4 I am not trying to tempt you into the water. I believe everyone has their roles to play in life and everyone has a crucial role to add their little piece to the gigantic jigsaw puzzle we know as 'humanity'. The scientists have their place, as do the creationists. It is my contention that we will only 'move forward' as a species if everyone does their own individual jobs.
A friend of mine once reffered to me as a 'shaman' ,(in regards to my role in life). I had to think about it for a while but I reckon I loosely fit the description. He was a bhuddist monk. That was his role. What do you reckon? do we all need to find our roles or all conform to one idealogy? ( I know that sounds like a loaded question, but I promise I'm not about to 'pounce' )

As regards to a 'good' reason to change my mind , I might ask the same question to others? Why NOT believe in ufo's and aliens,etc.? After all there are a lot of stars out there...

Originally posted by joe beyser
You said I could call you Chalie on another thread somewhere. I said holy crapopoly and you may have thought I was warping holy karoly. That is not the case though as I say holy crapoly quite a bit.

Ah yes-now I remember! thnx for reminding me. The reason for mentioning that egotistical title 'holy karoly' is just to give others a hint at how to pronounce it properly. Its really quite a silly notion (holiness). Either we all are or nobody is. I guess the only difference between a holy man ,like say the bhudda, and me is that he was completely aware of his holiness and I'm still groggilly beginning to awaken to my awareness of my holiness.
(so silly...all this talk of holiness. But, oh yeah, I did start it..Silly me!)

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Ah yes-now I remember! thnx for reminding me. The reason for mentioning that egotistical title 'holy karoly' is just to give others a hint at how to pronounce it properly. Its really quite a silly notion (holiness). Either we all are or nobody is. I guess the only difference between a holy man ,like say the bhudda, and me is that he was completely aware ...[text shortened]... y holiness.
(so silly...all this talk of holiness. But, oh yeah, I did start it..Silly me!)

And I do prefer 'Charlie' but when I was signing up for rhp I didn't know you wern't supposed to use your real name. Otherwise I would've called myself "Charlietheloudandannoyingguitarman' 🙂😵

Originally posted by karoly aczel
The underlying current I pick up from you is that I'm not as open-minded as I sometimes claim. Well I do try to be-but thats just words on a screen and is really up to me to prove to myself that I am.

As I said b4 I am not trying to tempt you into the water. I believe everyone has their roles to play in life and everyone has a crucial role to add th ...[text shortened]... T believe in ufo's and aliens,etc.? After all there are a lot of stars out there...

Originally posted by karoly aczel
The underlying current I pick up from you is that I'm not as open-minded as I sometimes claim.
It is difficult to judge degrees of open-mindedness, but I have noticed you cling to your world-view in the face of disconfirming evidence with as much grim determination as the most ardent believer.

As I said b4 I am not trying to tempt you into the water.
I just mean by that, engaging in the conversation in your terms, which is how you tend to steer things.

What do you reckon?
It takes all kinds 🙂

As regards to a 'good' reason to change my mind , I might ask the same question to others?
Yes, that follows from the point I was making, if you think about it.

Why NOT believe in ufo's and aliens,etc.? After all there are a lot of stars out there...
I think you know the answer.

Originally posted by Lord Shark
Originally posted by karoly aczel
[b]The underlying current I pick up from you is that I'm not as open-minded as I sometimes claim.
It is difficult to judge degrees of open-mindedness, but I have noticed you cling to your world-view in the face of disconfirming evidence with as much grim determination as the most ardent believer.

As I ...[text shortened]... iens,etc.? After all there are a lot of stars out there...
I think you know the answer.[/b]

🙂
I am tempted to reply...

Originally posted by karoly aczel
🙂
I am tempted to reply...

Ah g'wan....

Originally posted by Lord Shark
Originally posted by karoly aczel
[b]The underlying current I pick up from you is that I'm not as open-minded as I sometimes claim.
It is difficult to judge degrees of open-mindedness, but I have noticed you cling to your world-view in the face of disconfirming evidence with as much grim determination as the most ardent believer.

As I iens,etc.? After all there are a lot of stars out there...
I think you know the answer.[/b]

Ok , but you have to CONSIDER joining my guitarists clan 🙂

.Yes I tend to try to steer things with my terms , but it is not supposed to be a conclusive-type engagement. I try to lead things into unchartered/unknown areas. The purpose of the language I use is to disarm and reavaluate reality. Hey , Im pretty new to this internet thing. I'm just trying things...(I'm sure there are enough people on here that will tell you about Jesus ,etc. )

I cling to my 'underlying notion' of my world-view,(ie. that we share the universe with other intelligent beings who sometimes visit us). The manifestations of this view are often subject to radical change.

An example: I have a book called 'Abduction to the 9th planet'. It was a good read and had many interesting ideas in it. But no reason to believe the basic premise of the story was true (ie.that the author was abducted and shown some other realities,planets,etc.) but it got my interst aroused.
One day I took this book to my film course. (We had a nice, fair female teacher...) When she saw this book I had she almost went white. She completely forgot what she was doing and just started telling me about how the author had stolen the story from her husband, who was supposed to be the actual abductee . She said 'look at the photos'. (they were just of the author in his home). She said the origonal book had pictures of an artefact that her husband had brought back with him. She said that the author had somehow stolen the story and made her husband 'disappear'. (She hadn't seen him in years...) She also said that many times she had trid to approach this supposed fake author,(at some of his book launches,speeches,etc.), and that she had been knocked back by security and offered no explanayion for anything.

Basically thats the story.I probably haven't remembered it properly, but that was the general gist.
So whats going on here? I dont know. I'm even more in the dark than after I first read the book.
Do you consider that some kind of evidence? Her reactions seemed completely natural.
This is why I bandy around my alien/ufo stories- every once in a while someone claims to have direct experience with the story.I admit , its not often , but, given that I think direct experience is the best form of proof/evidence, I find it interesting when an anomolie ,such as this one, crops up.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Ok , but you have to CONSIDER joining my guitarists clan 🙂

.Yes I tend to try to steer things with my terms , but it is not supposed to be a conclusive-type engagement. I try to lead things into unchartered/unknown areas. The purpose of the language I use is to disarm and reavaluate reality. Hey , Im pretty new to this internet thing. I'm just tryin ...[text shortened]... proof/evidence, I find it interesting when an anomolie ,such as this one, crops up.

Ok, I'll have a paddle 🙂

I read your story about the book and the film teacher. I don't have a problem accepting that it happened as you said it did, since it isn't particularly extraordinary or implausible.

What's going on there? I don't know, I'm too far from the situation to know so I don't see the point of speculating.

But also, consider this. Suppose tomorrow some aliens abducted me and took me to their spaceship. Supposing they were short, grey, with big heads and large, dark, almond-shaped eyes. Suppose they probed me for a while and I slipped in an out of consciousness, barely able to interpret the fantastic spectacle of the technologically advanced interior of the ship.

Now, after they return me to earth, suppose I tell you about it. In that case I would be giving you direct witness testimony based on my personal experience of a real event. The question I want to ask you is this, would it be rational for you to believe me?

Originally posted by Lord Shark
Ok, I'll have a paddle 🙂

I read your story about the book and the film teacher. I don't have a problem accepting that it happened as you said it did, since it isn't particularly extraordinary or implausible.

What's going on there? I don't know, I'm too far from the situation to know so I don't see the point of speculating.

But also, consider thi ...[text shortened]... vent. The question I want to ask you is this, would it be rational for you to believe me?

Honestly,I have 2 sides-no wait 3 when it comes to interpretting that sort of thing. Either I'm skeptical. I listen and sit on the fence. Or , I tend to think there is some truth in it. In the case of that sort of story there is no way I would just believe it without question. The 'greys' phenomena is one which I have had only second0hand,indirect experience with so I sit on the fence. The sheer numbers of similar reports is interesting to me to warrant furthur investigation (though the skeptic might say that a whole bunch of people are using the same fake story)

As regards to my film teacher incident, why not speculate. Not on whether what she's saying is true or not but whether that type of experience constitutes better evidence. Your removed third party perspective could be invaluable for determining which way to go with this odd matter. Do you think she was putting on an act just to screw with my head?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Honestly,I have 2 sides-no wait 3 when it comes to interpretting that sort of thing. Either I'm skeptical. I listen and sit on the fence. Or , I tend to think there is some truth in it. In the case of that sort of story there is no way I would just believe it without question. The 'greys' phenomena is one which I have had only second0hand,indirect exper ...[text shortened]... go with this odd matter. Do you think she was putting on an act just to screw with my head?

You didn't really give a straight answer, would it be rational for you to believe me or not? Would it be rational to sit on the fence (assigning an equal probability to the truth and falsity of my claim)?

As for speculation on the teacher incident, I have your account of her account of a story which involves her husband's account of being abducted by aliens. She said the story was stolen by the author and she hadn't seen her husband for years. It is not clear from your account if she said the author was responsible for her husband's disappearance or whether you just inferred this.

What is clear is that there are two extraordinary claims:

1)alien abduction
2) theft of the story along with alien artifacts, and possibly kidnap or murder of the original aleged abductee.

In neither case, according to your account, were you given any good evidence for either claim. All you have is first and second hand testimony. Given the extraordinary nature of the claims, that just isn't good enough.

If it amuses you to speculate about why she told you this, whether she was yanking your chain or whether her husband was involved in a fraud to sell a lie but his associate hired to manufacture the 'artifacts' double crossed him and stole the story.....etc...then that's up to you. There are worse hobbies.

Originally posted by Lord Shark
You didn't really give a straight answer, would it be rational for you to believe me or not? Would it be rational to sit on the fence (assigning an equal probability to the truth and falsity of my claim)?

As for speculation on the teacher incident, I have your account of her account of a story which involves her husband's account of being abducted by a rossed him and stole the story.....etc...then that's up to you. There are worse hobbies.

It would be irrational for me to believe you,however I'm really not sure what 'rational' means in the Spirituality Forum .

Originally posted by karoly aczel
It would be irrational for me to believe you,however I'm really not sure what 'rational' means in the Spirituality Forum .

The same as it means elsewhere, I would have thought. Also, it is just as important to believers as unbelievers in my exprerience.

Incidentally, did you say you had a guitarists clan? if I were a subscriber I'd apply to join 🙂

Originally posted by karoly aczel
It would be irrational for me to believe you,however I'm really not sure what 'rational' means in the Spirituality Forum .

You seem to be fond of the "everyone does it so why cant I?" defense. It is a poor defense. If everyone believed in Santa, that would have no bearing whatsoever on whether or not it was irrational to believe in the tooth fairy.
Just because theists are irrational it does not make your beliefs less irrational.

I personally think you have every right to be irrational or believe irrational things if you really want to, I just hope that one day you will recognize that your beliefs are irrational and possibly wish to change them for more rational ones. But I would not force such a change on you.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Just because theists are irrational it does not make your beliefs less irrational.
I don't think theists are, in general, more irrational than atheists. Of course, they hold that some things are true for non-rational reasons, but so do we all.

I think the difficulty is when people confuse the non-rational and the rational, or at least, talk as if they have.