08 Sep 09
Originally posted by karoly aczelWell, I think there are plenty of them.
I've seen the two old guys in England with their little wooden contraption. Clearly they couldn't hav made all the ones they claim to have made. Are there more hoaxers like them? I'm sure there are,I just wanted to know if it was those two you were refferring to or others?
The first made was quite simple. When more were found, they were more and more eleborated patterns. Every student with a sense of humour and a joy for laughs wanted to to a better job than the preceedings.
Why didn't the aliens do the eleborate ones from the beginning? Why did they seem to learn from the beginning?
08 Sep 09
Originally posted by FabianFnasYep, and why mutilate a whole bunch of cows and spread dirty mind viruses that people were abducted and probed and returned to their homes with no recollection of what had happened, except after traumatic hypnotic recollections?
Well, I think there are plenty of them.
The first made was quite simple. When more were found, they were more and more eleborated patterns. Every student with a sense of humour and a joy for laughs wanted to to a better job than the preceedings.
Why didn't the aliens do the eleborate ones from the beginning? Why did they seem to learn from the beginning?
But yes Fabian, I take your point, and as I mentioned earlier I readily admit they could all be fake...
08 Sep 09
Originally posted by karoly aczelI myself find a lot of joy tricking and fooling journalists. They are the best to fool, because when they write about it it has a big impact of people. Everyone seems to believe what the press writes.
Yep, and why mutilate a whole bunch of cows and spread dirty mind viruses that people were abducted and probed and returned to their homes with no recollection of what had happened, except after traumatic hypnotic recollections?
But yes Fabian, I take your point, and as I mentioned earlier I readily admit they could all be fake...
Small warm air baloons, propelled by a little candle that lights up the colorful ballon, fools many people into the thought that they see UFO's. A one student that I know about borrowd a WW2 spotlight (to find incoming enemy planes) to lit up very high clouds once. The day after we could read that UFO's was seen in the woods of ...! Yeah, right, we thought who knew the joker.
So wheat patterns, light phenomenas, UFO sightings, and funny things should often be blamed of inventive students, not having better things to spend their time with. These events are often seen not far from technical Universities.
Mutilate a whole bunch of cows? Yes, that would be fun! 🙂
09 Sep 09
Originally posted by karoly aczelThat is called a false dichotomy - a very popular technique amongst Christians too. I often hear people say something along these lines: "well if this one word of the Bible is wrong, then the whole Bible is false and I must change my whole religion, so I can't accept that this one word is wrong".
Now I am left at a place where I either reject out of hand my life experiences,(and substitute someone elses version of reality), or try to work with my life expeiences and see where they lead me.
In your case, you seem to be justifying every belief you have, even when it has nothing to do with your life experience (such as the origin of crop circles), by claiming that the alternative is to discard all beliefs and all life experience.
This is simply not reasonable. Surely you can admit that at least one of your experiences in life could have been wrong or misunderstood by you without that causing you to totally doubt your whole life?
Also is it not reasonable that maybe some of your experiences were wrongly interpreted by you? Does it again mean a total life change just for you to admit that one particular experience was interpreted wrongly? Especially when it is not just the experience that is being questioned but rather the interpretation?
09 Sep 09
5 edits
Originally posted by twhiteheaddifference between those that form views based on the bible and me is that I'vwe formed my views from direct experience. ( note: I 'm sure there is much good , even divine in christian teachings. I just haven't experienced it that way. However I dont dismiss others that claim they have.)
That is called a false dichotomy - a very popular technique amongst Christians too. I often hear people say something along these lines: "well if this one word of the Bible is wrong, then the whole Bible is false and I must change my whole religion, so I can't accept that this one word is wrong".
In your case, you seem to be justifying every belief you h ...[text shortened]... ly when it is not just the experience that is being questioned but rather the interpretation?
A lot of my life experiences could have been wrong or misinterpretted. You could even say, from a different viewpoint that they are all 'wrong'. Depends on where your attention is, your mastery of linguistcs and your interpretation of what 'reality' is.
For example I mentioned that I had seen some 'erratically moving' night lights. They could've been ufo's but I didn't form that conclusion because I know a lot of different things could've been happening. Like my eyes could've been playing tricks on me, as eyes do sometimes at night, as one example.
I explore ideas that I come across in books that seem to fit in with my version of 'reality'.
If they are all trying to sell books and perpetrating hoaxes then they are all very dedicated. From ZEN to the Gnostics, from vimpanas to Russian psycics. Occultists, fairy-lore tellers, Shamans, Free-energy advocates, channelers of ghosts and other entities.
Thousands of abductees and cattle mutilations. Several stories about secret governments up to all sorts of paranormal mischief.
Astrologers from all different continents and different times. Parrallel worlds. Martians being pat of our future.Past humans with different coloured skins. (orange,blue,green,purple) Astral travellers and lucid dreamers. Time travellers and dimensional hoppers.
Do you want me to stop?
Like this: evolutionist often claim that creationists are wrong , and vice versa. Historians often dismiss claims by other researchers because they are 'clearly wrong' and these researchers findings dont fit in with their own, well-researched accounts of history. ETC. (So many people are trying to claim they have the truth and the other guy (or chick) is wrong .) Now obviously some people have got to be outrightly wrong, however here is my contention: Why cant evotuionist and creationist theories be modified to accomodate both beliefs? Or why cant different histories be slightly modified to incorporate alternative theories on history?
The hindus had their avatars( or gods) written about and worshipped.Along came Guatama bhudda and the hindus decided to make him their sixteenth avatar, based on their interpretaion of their own scriptures and what bhudda was claiming.
The world is not static. Change is inevitable. Science has constantly been reinterpretting reality as they find new discoveries.
One day they will find a 'white hole'.
Have you heard about a guy nemed Osho? He is supposed to be a contemporay Zen master who died in the eighties sometime. His previous name was Rajneesh. He was known as the 'bagwhan'. He claimed to be enlightened and , as there may be some questions about his claim, his stories and and teachings seem to speak directly to the heart of all people. More importantly(for mr) he lived in the 20th century, so that questions he answered were easier to relate to and understand than say Jesus or Mohammed.
We have all different sorts of devotees from different religons that all claim cevotion to their guy (or gal) will get them into heaven. How is one to sift through all this information without having some grounding themselves in the "Ultimate Reality'? Or are they just all mental cases?
What do you reckon? Has the whole New-age/ alternative spiritual teachings been just one big hoax? (possibly the work of the devil to keep our minds off of Jesus and his teaching? )
Now I cant explore all these (and more) topics in this lifetime. So my attention is mainly focussed on alien/ interdimensional topics. I am dedicated to researching and fullfilling my part of this great jigsaw that we sometimes call "God" . Other than that I like to play music and remind myself not to get too serious about stuff, and that everyday, normal experiences, contain just as much magic as miracles and other supposedly supernatural stuff. 🙂 Cheers.
09 Sep 09
Originally posted by karoly aczelHow could one’s theories of reality be modified if s/he is sure that they must not be modified because they are accurate according to her/ his never changing, eternal “absolute truth”?
difference between those that form views based on the bible and me is that I'vwe formed my views from direct experience. ( note: I 'm sure there is much good , even divine in christian teachings. I just haven't experienced it that way. However I dont dismiss others that claim they have.)
A lot of my life experiences could have been wrong or misinterpre ...[text shortened]... histories be slightly modified to incorporate alternative theories on history?
An example: for the time being, in my opinion the main Eastern and Western religions as we know them today are all by-products of the miscellaneous theories of reality that they were offered by various Eastern and Western meditators. So I conclude that every religion is just another social product that constitutes a body of collective archetypes which in turn they became the basis of the invention of further collective beliefs and practices endowed with a certain authority. And I assume that a “religion” is not necessarily just a plexus of symbols, rites, temples, religious personages and worshipping of supernatural existences, but also an apparatus of collective representations that they express collective realities. Also, since atheism can also become an apparatus of collective representations that they express collective realities, I am able to monitor specific atheist religious sects.
Now you understand that I need your falsification, I need you to bring up facts and evidence in order to have my opinion modified: and when you bring them up I will thankfully assure you that I will immediately change my theory accordingly.
But you ask “Why can’t evolutionist and creationist theories be modified in order to accommodate both beliefs? Or why can’t different histories be slightly modified to incorporate alternative theories on history?”… They cannot, because the standards of each theory are different -and the point of the attention of each person that accepts each thesis is related strictly to their personal theories of reality that in turn they are the causation of the shifting of their personal point of attention that in turn is related strictly to their personal thesis of reality ad infinitum
😵
09 Sep 09
Originally posted by black beetleHence everything is wrong and (as has been put forward in another thread), There is no one Truth that everyone can subscribe to. However all these half truths lead us to the Ultimate Truth,even though there is no such thing in this 'reflected world'. So, as troubling and misleading the path of dharma may be, we must keep following it until we reach our final dead-end.
How could one’s theories of reality be modified if s/he is sure that they must not be modified because they are accurate according to her/ his never changing, eternal “absolute truth”?
An example: for the time being, in my opinion the main Eastern and Western religions as we know them today are all by-products of the miscellaneous theories of reality ...[text shortened]... attention that in turn is related strictly to their personal thesis of reality ad infinitum
😵
I'm not entirely sure if my reply has totally captured the spirit of your post. As I have stated elsewhere, my capacity for linguistical nouse has diminished over the years as my faith in direct experience has increased. Sorry I couldn't give a better reply...
09 Sep 09
Originally posted by black beetleYes ,dear noble friend, way too much noise.
Jesus the Son of God, Muhammad the Prophet of God, Osso the Smart Enlightened, Buddha the Enlightened One, this person, that person, the other person; this god, that god, the other god -too much noise regarding our products
😵
However when I am in the dark , in the 'middle of nowhere' , with no outside noise (no insects or traffic noise, nothing) I still hear a 'buzzing. And there is no light,no stars or anything, I can still see some 'christmas -type ' lights that are there when I close my eyes at anytime.
One day the extremes will break me
09 Sep 09
Originally posted by karoly aczelNope, it is false to state that "everything is wrong".
Hence everything is wrong and (as has been put forward in another thread), There is no one Truth that everyone can subscribe to. However all these half truths lead us to the Ultimate Truth,even though there is no such thing in this 'reflected world'. So, as troubling and misleading the path of dharma may be, we must keep following it until we reach ou ...[text shortened]... ears as my faith in direct experience has increased. Sorry I couldn't give a better reply...
Also I understand “truth” merely as a notion regarding the accepted for the time being deductions from our theory of reality which they match our knowledge as we establish it by means of our six senses and our experiments, therefore the notion “truth” is under constant evaluation
😵
09 Sep 09
Originally posted by karoly aczelWorry not. It's enough to expand at the 8 directions😵
Yes ,dear noble friend, way too much noise.
However when I am in the dark , in the 'middle of nowhere' , with no outside noise (no insects or traffic noise, nothing) I still hear a 'buzzing. And there is no light,no stars or anything, I can still see some 'christmas -type ' lights that are there when I close my eyes at anytime.
One day the extremes will break me
09 Sep 09
Originally posted by black beetleNope ,it is wrong to state " it is false to state 'everything is wrong' ".
Nope, it is false to state that "everything is wrong".
Also I understand “truth” merely as a notion regarding the accepted for the time being deductions from our theory of reality which they match our knowledge as we establish it by means of our six senses and our experiments, therefore the notion “truth” is under constant evaluation
😵
09 Sep 09
Originally posted by black beetleDid I say I was worried? (I suppose now you think I'm defensive)
Worry not. It's enough to expand at the 8 directions😵
I will leave it for now. Please dont think this is an invitation to become complex and misleading.
(Mountains are not mountains and rivers are not rivers) , and the people in my life are 'forcing' me to become extremely patient and humble. My ego is being challenged from all sides. Sometimes My temper rises but for the most part I wade through the pain and keep my focus on the source.
And ,as always, I cant thank you enough for your input. Cheers.
09 Sep 09
Originally posted by karoly aczelYes, at another level it would be wrong.
Nope ,it is wrong to state " it is false to state 'everything is wrong' ".
But at the level of our physical world the reality is the arisen dualism, and this is the reason why your Zen teacher would hit you severely if you offered him this answer. The mountains are mountains again. Ignore not the reality, grasp its nature, ignore not your self, grasp its nature and establish your personal point of attention herenow
😵
09 Sep 09
Originally posted by karoly aczel"Worry not" was just an attempt to joke;
Did I say I was worried? (I suppose now you think I'm defensive)
I will leave it for now. Please dont think this is an invitation to become complex and misleading.
(Mountains are not mountains and rivers are not rivers) , and the people in my life are 'forcing' me to become extremely patient and humble. My ego is being challenged from all sides. S ...[text shortened]... eep my focus on the source.
And ,as always, I cant thank you enough for your input. Cheers.
Your ego and my ego are noisy products of ours and are empty;
Your input is valuable to me too and I am thankful;
Always be well
😵