1. Standard memberNemesio
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    27 Jul '07 15:59
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    This is tricky. When I went to bible class years ago, we were taught at the end, primarily from 1Cor 12-14. We were brought to a place where we fully trusted God to manefest. We were told to move our mouths, lips and trust God that the words would be there.... Most did it, but some did not...The ones that did not were fearful, but came around later...
    It was exhilerating for me because I knew I was not making up the words...One of the key verses that helped people was this...


    What happens if, in the context of moving your mouths, lips and trusting God, if something like,
    'God hates black people' comes out?

    Nemesio
  2. R
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    27 Jul '07 19:52
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    [b]This is tricky. When I went to bible class years ago, we were taught at the end, primarily from 1Cor 12-14. We were brought to a place where we fully trusted God to manefest. We were told to move our mouths, lips and trust God that the words would be there.... Most did it, but some did not...The ones that did not w ...[text shortened]... hs, lips and trusting God, if something like,
    'God hates black people' comes out?

    Nemesio
    Then it is not of God....
  3. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    27 Jul '07 19:56
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Then it is not of God....
    But if it's unintelligible nonsense, then it is from God?
  4. R
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    27 Jul '07 20:28
    Originally posted by ryunix
    So back to Paul Washers message *caugh*

    You guys can start a thread on sound minds, etc if you like 🙂 I would mind because i have my own thoughts on speaking in tongues and prophesy

    ANYWAY

    I personally found the message very convicting as a Christian. I also was sadden by it... so many people are not truly believes because of bad evangelizing method ...[text shortened]... Once again lets try to stay on topic, other topics are great for new topics or private messages.
    I'm sorry the topic got off track....I liked what he said and to a point I agree. What I did not like is the part he quoted about the heart.
    The verse he quoted is from Jer 17:9...This verse is better translated from the NIV...
    Jer 17:9
    9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
    (NIV)

    If the heart is beyond cure, then how do we trust it at all? He sounded a little gloomy and sounds like one of those Christians who has the burden of the world on his shoulders. At first I thought like he is right, we should repent daily, and to this I agree. But the reason I mentioned about manefestations is that this is my proof of the new birth inside. You see, if the heart is incurably sick, then we need a new heart. And this is what happens when we are born again and renew our minds to God's Word.
    We are ambassadors for Christ! Who would want Christ if we were to walk around all day with the burden of the world on our shoulders? If we were always downcast wondering if we had sin or were really born again? No. The new life in Christ is an adventure! It is exciting! It is full of love and hope! We have the righteoussness of God Himself! We are to boast of our great Father and our Lord, Jesus Christ!
    Rom 5:1-5
    1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
    2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
    3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance;
    4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope.
    5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
    (NKJ)

    Rom 6:5
    5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,
    (NKJ)

    2 Cor 5:21
    21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
    (NKJ)

    Rom 3:21-22
    21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
    22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;
    (NKJ)

    We should be full of joy, we have been Redeemed, Justified, made Righteous, Reconciled, and made ambassadors for Christ! I don't want to hear "How do you know if you are saved"? I have been a Christian for 35 years. I have learned that satan will cause you to doubt your salvation. I want to be encouraged, exhorted and if I have unconfessed sin, God will bring this up and I will confess and be restored into fellowship with Him.
    What Jesus accomplished on the cross and His ressurection, is so big that many Christians don't seem to understand who we are in Christ.
    When a real Christian full of holy spirit, knowing who he is in Christ walks into a room, devils tremble!
    Now I only listened to the short version and perhaps he had better things to say, so I am not condemning him, but just wanted to vent my thoughts on this topic..... 🙂
  5. Illinois
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    27 Jul '07 21:07
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    But if it's unintelligible nonsense, then it is from God?
    What language does God speak?
  6. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    27 Jul '07 22:14
    Originally posted by epiphinehas
    What language does God speak?
    He speaks English in the King James Bible, which, I understand, is the authoritative edition, so I'd say English.
  7. Standard memberNemesio
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    27 Jul '07 22:24
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Then it is not of God....
    This seems a problem, then. What if while prophesying, something like this happens:

    'Know for a truth and a certainty that the Lord your God has loved you from the foundations of the world. Black people are intrinsically evil. He has called you to a mighty calling. Be bold and shine as lights in this world, Fear not, for He walks with you all the days of your lives.'

    How can one observing know which parts are inspired and which parts are not? How can one who
    is prophesying know if s/he is moving his/her own lips or if God is doing it?

    Nemesio
  8. R
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    27 Jul '07 23:39
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    This seems a problem, then. What if while prophesying, something like this happens:

    'Know for a truth and a certainty that the Lord your God has loved you from the foundations of the world. Black people are intrinsically evil. He has called you to a mighty calling. Be bold and shine as lights in this world, Fear not, for He walks with you all the days o ...[text shortened]... who
    is prophesying know if s/he is moving his/her own lips or if God is doing it?

    Nemesio
    It cannot contradict God's nature, His character or His word. If it does, then it is not of God. I am through with your 3rd degree questioning. It does not sound like interest, but more like looking for an edge of attack. I have tried being cordial and honest with you and I am finished....good day.
  9. Illinois
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    28 Jul '07 00:00
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    He speaks English in the King James Bible, which, I understand, is the authoritative edition, so I'd say English.
    So English is God's native language?
  10. Illinois
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    28 Jul '07 00:06
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    This seems a problem, then. What if while prophesying, something like this happens:

    'Know for a truth and a certainty that the Lord your God has loved you from the foundations of the world. Black people are intrinsically evil. He has called you to a mighty calling. Be bold and shine as lights in this world, Fear not, for He walks with you all the days o ...[text shortened]... who
    is prophesying know if s/he is moving his/her own lips or if God is doing it?

    Nemesio
    Prophecy is the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose. Essentially it is the gift of teaching. Pastors do it every week.

    "Do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God" (1 John 4:1).
  11. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    28 Jul '07 01:11
    Originally posted by epiphinehas
    So English is God's native language?
    Well, he delivered the Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount, both in English and without so much as a minor grammatical mistake, so I'd say that's a good bet.
  12. Standard memberNemesio
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    28 Jul '07 03:061 edit
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    It cannot contradict God's nature, His character or His word. If it does, then it is not of God. I am through with your 3rd degree questioning. It does not sound like interest, but more like looking for an edge of attack. I have tried being cordial and honest with you and I am finished....good day.
    Look, you're the one who brought this up. I wasn't even familiar with 'forthtelling.'

    What it sounds like is you want to take credit for channeling inspiration if you just regurgitate something
    that sounds 'Scripture-like.' You can imagine the skepticism that this might engender, since it would
    be trivial for me to appear to be prophesying in this fashion. But you want to claim it as a special
    gift of the Spirit. You also want to claim that someone saying something different than Scripture
    is necessarily not channeling the Spirit.

    Jesus took the Law and He said: Here are some changes. No divorce, no eye-for-eye, no sacrifices.
    He channeled the Spirit and ushered in a new Covenant. He was a visionary, no doubt.

    But you want it to end there, just like the Jews wanted it to end with the Law. You're not in favor of
    progressive Revelation. You're as mired in your tradition as the Pharisees were.

    You want to proclaim your faith, but you don't want to deal with an examination of it. You want people
    to come to your line of belief, but you can't stand the experience of articulating it.

    Nemesio
  13. R
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    28 Jul '07 03:22
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    Look, you're the one who brought this up. I wasn't even familiar with 'forthtelling.'

    What it sounds like is you want to take credit for channeling inspiration if you just regurgitate something
    that sounds 'Scripture-like.' You can imagine the skepticism that this might engender, since it would
    be trivial for me to appear to be prophesying in this fas ...[text shortened]... your line of belief, but you can't stand the experience of articulating it.

    Nemesio
    Not true. It is not "channeling", and I am not saying it is a "special" gift either. All Christians if instructed properly can do the same. It is what I was taught and believe is the proper use of the manefestations of the spirit. If you are really interested I am willing to continue, but only as long as you are sincere about it. Here is a link about prophesy....

    http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=559

    This one is about interpretation of tongues...

    http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=463
  14. Gangster Land
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    28 Jul '07 03:33
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Not true. It is not "channeling", and I am not saying it is a "special" gift either. All Christians if instructed properly can do the same. It is what I was taught and believe is the proper use of the manefestations of the spirit. If you are really interested I am willing to continue, but only as long as you are sincere about it. Here is a link about pro ...[text shortened]... of tongues...

    http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=463
    Must a Christian do this, or is it optional?
  15. R
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    28 Jul '07 03:38
    Originally posted by TheSkipper
    Must a Christian do this, or is it optional?
    1 Cor 14:5
    5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.
    (NKJ)
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