1. Standard memberNemesio
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    27 Jul '07 01:08
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    I suppose...you could put it that way...but it is still "inspiration" not direct revelation.
    And, while it happens, do you know if you are prophesying? That is,
    is there a distinction from the way in which you yourself experience the
    words coming forth from your lips? That is, that you know it's 'inspiration'
    rather than your own individual thoughts?

    Nemesio
  2. Hmmm . . .
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    27 Jul '07 01:161 edit
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    If you have time, could you expound upon the Jewish understanding of
    prophecy?

    Nemesio
    The prophet is one who speaks the message of YHVH directly to the people, often outside the bounds of religious convention. Generally, the message is one of justice and compassion, as opposed to religious legalism. Sometimes, as I maintain Jeremiah does, the message is corrective of prior understandings. (Some scholars believe that Jeremiah was speaking in some ways against the recently discovered “book” of Deuteronomy.)

    The prophets were speaking to then-current historical situations. Their words are valid for us to the extent that we find ourselves in similar situations. In a sense, I think, Checkbaiter’s comments about “forthtelling” apply.

    Prophets are not “inerrant”, however. Like the Torah itself, their words are to be considered. In a certain sense, they were perhaps the earliest voices of the “oral torah.” That oral torah (I use caps to indicate the five “books of Moses” ) is continuing and dynamic. Jesus, for example, as a rabbi, spoke his torah to the Torah—as other rabbis have done before and since.

    Rabbinical Judaism is not—and never has been—the religion of the “Old Testament.” Tradition is honored; it is not slavishly followed. (Well, sometimes, perhaps it is. There are undoubtedly Jewish “fundamentalists.” They are not, however, “mainstream”.)

    As you know, “Biblical literalism/inerrancy” is not a particularly Jewish stance. Real torah arises from the engagement in which one brings one’s own torah to the Torah. (Talmid Torah—Torah study—generally takes the form of argument between at least two students; the Talmuds and the midrashim are not pronouncements as to the meaning of Torah, so much as they are a record of various interpretations by rabbis over time—ultimately set down in writing, not for adherence, but as a kind of template and a springboard for continuing interpretation.)

    [I follow Abraham Joshua Heschel here, from his book The Prophets; my understanding, however, should not be laid to him.]

    EDIT: As always, one needs to be careful about trying to expound the "Jewish understanding." Judaism is no more monolithic than is Christianity. This, however, seems to be the main stream, as I understand it (that is, one can find it among such various groups as Hasidic, Reform, Conservative, and Reconstructionist Jews, despite what other differences they may have).
  3. R
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    27 Jul '07 01:17
    This is tricky. When I went to bible class years ago, we were taught at the end, primarily from 1Cor 12-14. We were brought to a place where we fully trusted God to manefest. We were told to move our mouths, lips and trust God that the words would be there.... Most did it, but some did not...The ones that did not were fearful, but came around later...
    It was exhilerating for me because I knew I was not making up the words...One of the key verses that helped people was this...
    Luke 11:11-12
    11 "If a son asks for bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish?
    12 "Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
    (NKJ)

    I simply trusted this to be God's will and went for it.
  4. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    27 Jul '07 01:182 edits
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Excellent...He is absolutely correct. If I may add....I know I am a Christian because I can speak in tongues, speak in tongues with interpretation, and prophecy. These are what I call the worship manefestations. I have also experienced word of knowledge and word of wisdom. Every believer has the potential to operate all 9 manefestations. The first three the gift of holy spirit. It has 9 functions or manefestations to help the individual believer.
    Your family does not love you. How do I know this? Because if they did, they would have you committed to a mental facility. Seriously. You can't honestly believe these things and be of sound mind.
  5. R
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    27 Jul '07 01:25
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Your family does not love you. How do I know this? Because if they did, they would have you committed to a mental facility. Seriously. You can't honestly believe these things and be of sound mind.
    Sure they do...And here it says I have a sound mind...

    2 Tim 1:7
    7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.
    (NKJ)
  6. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    27 Jul '07 01:27
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Sure they do...And here it says I have a sound mind...

    2 Tim 1:7
    7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.
    (NKJ)
    Do you think this verse indicates that everybody is in possession of a sound mind?
  7. R
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    27 Jul '07 01:37
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Do you think this verse indicates that everybody is in possession of a sound mind?
    No. And this thread is being hijacked again....
  8. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    27 Jul '07 01:40
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    No.
    Then how did you deduce from the verse that you have a sound mind?
  9. R
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    27 Jul '07 01:42
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Then how did you deduce from the verse that you have a sound mind?
    Because I have holy spirit and God has given me a sound mind. How do you know you have a sound mind?
  10. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    27 Jul '07 01:441 edit
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    How do you know you have a sound mind?
    Because I have holy spirit and God has given me a sound mind.



    Not too compelling, is it?
  11. R
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    27 Jul '07 01:48
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Because I have holy spirit and God has given me a sound mind.



    Not too compelling, is it?
    Not at all....But the fact is I don't really care if you think I have a sound mind or not. And visa versa, I'm sure. Well, enough already, my sound mind is telling me it is bedtime.....later...😉
  12. Hmmm . . .
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    27 Jul '07 01:55
    Define a sound mind?

    The ability to reason to sound conclusions? The ability to test one’s intuitions against reality? The ability to step out of a given system in order to evaluate its (external and internal) consistency? The willingness to correct one’s errors—assuming that one has survived them?
  13. Standard memberKellyJay
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    27 Jul '07 02:191 edit
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    The verb is prophesy (pronounced prof-uh-sai). The thing which you
    testify is a prophecy (pronounced prof-uh-see).

    What sort of prophesying have you done? Weird vague ones like in
    Daniel (a tower of iron will crumble when the Sun cries at the sound of
    the moon's sleeping) or like real concrete ones?

    There was some discussion some months back bet ...[text shortened]... emember who, one who was asserting that the time
    for these manifestations has past.

    Nemesio
    Me and some one else I do not recall who.
    I believe we were debating speaking and tongues.
    Kelly
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    27 Jul '07 12:59
    So back to Paul Washers message *caugh*

    You guys can start a thread on sound minds, etc if you like 🙂 I would mind because i have my own thoughts on speaking in tongues and prophesy

    ANYWAY

    I personally found the message very convicting as a Christian. I also was sadden by it... so many people are not truly believes because of bad evangelizing methods, and even more so, because they don’t quest to learn after they are saved... which does not make a lot of sense and is opposite to what the bible shows and teaches.
    Once again lets try to stay on topic, other topics are great for new topics or private messages.
  15. Illinois
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    27 Jul '07 15:31
    Originally posted by ryunix
    I was wondering what people thought of his message. I am really currious what Christians and non Christians thing, so please specify that if you wouldnt mind

    Here are 3 links to youtube videos. He talks about how a Christian can know they are a Christian thus knkow they are saved.

    4 minutes of your time
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY6F0pkArds

    1 ...[text shortened]... watch?v=d3XA2k8S8Tk

    Bonus full 60 minute sermon
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuabITeO4l8
    I am a Christian. I thought the message was an important and powerful one.

    He is essentially describing the sanctification process; a process which is initiated by the Holy Spirit, who convicts a person of sin and calls him or her to repentance. This is a process which begins the moment we believe in Jesus Christ, because when we are saved God gives us the Holy Spirit as a guarantee that we are (1) in his family, (2) that we've been purchased with Christ's blood, and (3) that our inheritance is secure. The truly saved person, therefore, cannot make a habitual practice of sinning because of the Holy Spirit dwelling in him. Of course, the truly saved person may yet fall into sin, but the true child of God is one who consistently "puts to death the deeds of the flesh."

    This is sure evidence that a person is saved, I agree.
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