Originally posted by @moonbusIf it is because people are broken inside religion, would they be any less broken outside of it?
We can leave aside for one moment the fact some people misuse religion for ignoble ends and turn religion into a lightning rod which attracts people for reasons which have nothing to do with saving souls.
Suppose you wanted peace among nations (in a political sense) and you thought that some sort of conference to talk things over would be a good way to sta ...[text shortened]... and where that is precluded from the git-go, peace among religions remains an unreachable goal.
Originally posted by @kellyjayThere is no doubt that some people go astray if left to their own devices. Organizing a community of like-minded seekers and providing a collective purpose for their otherwise merely egotistical activities, is one of the most useful things religion can do, when it is doing what it ought to be doing.
If it is because people are broken inside religion, would they be any less broken outside of it?
Originally posted by @moonbusThat is the the thing, what is it that we ought to be doing? What is to be done with those that disagree?
There is no doubt that some people go astray if left to their own devices. Organizing a community of like-minded seekers and providing a collective purpose for their otherwise merely egotistical activities, is one of the most useful things religion can do, when it is doing what it ought to be doing.
Here's a little mind game that might interest you...
Imagine you are in a large room with a whole lot of other people. They all believe basically the same, in broad strokes. Let's call this the "Christian Room". It contains the Bible, all the Saints and all their writings. All churches, and it even contains Heaven and Hell (in separate corners of the room, obviously).
Let us postulate that this room contains the entirety of Christian dogma and beliefs.
So all the people that argue about the niceties of the faith, like Raj proposing Works, sonship the Calling on the Name of Jesus, Kelly Jay trying to be the "reasonable" guy and Eladar just throwing out cliches, all of them are in this room.
Sometimes, for one reason or another, people leave the room. That can be an interesting experience! They find a long passage, with many doors leading off it. Some people, like maybe FMF, stay in the passage and are glad they left the "Christian" room. Others, maybe out of curiosity, open another door and look in (maybe even go in).
Then they will find another room full if people - nice people, not-so-nice people, and a whole new set of beliefs. Maybe there is Buddha, maybe Mohamed, maybe Zoroaster, maybe Zeus. And everybody in that particular room is emphatically convinced that it is the only room that there is; that their room is, in fact, the entire house!
So you go to another room, and then another, and find a lot of similarities, and also many differences. But curiosity drives you on.
So finally, (and here's the mind-blowing thing) you find a ladder and climb onto the roof.
The vista before you is staggering! Many many houses, to the horizon, and a sky above, mountains in the distance and a beautiful sunset (or sunrise!) never ever imagined before.
Few people have sat on the roof. It is well worth a visit.
Originally posted by @caljustThe father's house has many mansions.
Here's a little mind game that might interest you...
Imagine you are in a large room with a whole lot of other people. They all believe basically the same, in broad strokes. Let's call this the "Christian Room". It contains the Bible, all the Saints and all their writings. All churches, and it even contains Heaven and Hell (in separate corners of the roo ...[text shortened]... rise!) never ever imagined before.
Few people have sat on the roof. It is well worth a visit.
Originally posted by @moonbusI have weighed in on this issue many times. God and Christ has failed if the only people who will enter the Kingdom of God are Christians.
I have no problem with that. Let's see whether Eladar can run with it. Rajk999 has already weighed in.
Originally posted by @kellyjay
That is the thing, what is it that we ought to be doing?
"Become the change you want to see." --Gandhi
What is to be done with those that disagree?
On some issues, one can only agree to disagree; the important thing is to be able to leave it at that, instead of escalating to the point where people are liable to get hurt.
Originally posted by @rajk999Jesus set himself the task of reforming the Jews; Paul, that of converting the gentiles. It is a curiosity of history that the man succeeded where the God failed.
I have weighed in on this issue many times. God and Christ has failed if the only people who will enter the Kingdom of God are Christians.
Originally posted by @kellyjayThere is no 'way to God' expression from Christ, you made that up. There is a whole lot about how to enter the Kingdom of God.. or the way to eternal life if you want and its all about good works and righteousness. The parable of the Good Samaritan, The Rich Man and Lazarus. Matt 25 judgment day .. all good works.
What did Jesus say about the way to God?
What Christians like you fail to understand is that professions of faith and calling Jesus, praying, bible reading all have its place and the function of those this is to facilitate and encourage good works. If the faith, the prayers, the bible reading do not result in the following of the commandments of Christ - good works and righteousness, then they are useless mouthworship.
The Kingdom of God also has several classes of people. This is a complicated matter but they are all mentioned in the bible
- the elect
- the sheep
- the disciples
- the saints
- the chosen
- the 144,000
- the great crowd of witnesses.
- the people with no law who have the works of the law in their hearts.
You do not know neither can the bible contain every single detail of Gods plan. The bible is for the Jews and the Christians. There are other people who are also the sheep of Christ.
-