perpetual forgivness

Originally posted by stocken
I like ice-cream.


No, I'm not trying to destroy this thread with a completely irrelevant and meaningless comment. Think about it.

I like ice-cream.

Huh? I am guessing here--- It is like sin,eat too much and pay the price.( of course sin is have any and pay the price) or are you refering to gluttony which many are also deliberatly guilty of.

Originally posted by jimmac
The other day I was confronted by a young man while I was playing the pokies.He claimed that if I died on the way home I would not be saved ( I am Christian) as I was willingly sinning.( his opinion). Who has an opinion on this,not the pokies being a sin but being forgiven or not when we do willingly sin.I believe we ( Christians) are saved once we truly acce ...[text shortened]... can you please state if you are Christian or not. Thank you.

Jim Mc

is the only reason you are a christian is so that you can be saved from eternal damnation , so that you can reside in heavan and have a nice(?) afterlife? By the premise of that logic we should all be capitalists to have a nice life now...read Max Weber 'The Protestant Ethic and Spirit of Capitalism'

Originally posted by jimmac
Do you believe that we spend our time saved/unsaved-saved again etc. are you not EVER guilty of not loving your neighbour.That is an impossible commandment for most to follow and we usually ignore it with intent. I believe that we are indeed saved by saying,"I take the lord Jesus to be my saviour" so long as we mean it. How well we follow (or how poorly) will be judged only by God.

I guess I believe we spend our time unsaved until we have repented our sins and follow the ways of God instead of the desires of the self.

Repentance is an interesting concept. If one feels sorrow for what one has done, yet continues to sin, is this repentance? If one feels sorrow, stops the sin, yet still has the desire to sin, is this repentance? Or does it require a change in heart as well as action? Must the love of the ways of God reside so deeply in one's soul that the love of the desires of the self are rendered meaningless?

As to "loving your neighbor", one needs to define love. What do you think "love" means in this context?

Originally posted by Serendipity
is the only reason you are a christian is so that you can be saved from eternal damnation , so that you can reside in heavan and have a nice(?) afterlife? By the premise of that logic we should all be capitalists to have a nice life now...read Max Weber 'The Protestant Ethic and Spirit of Capitalism'

No--I am a Christian because for me it is the most logical truth as I see (feel) it.If it offered no eternity then it still is the best "now" option.I do not believe damnation is eternal (except for satan).Not in the fires of hell and burning forever sense anyway.That Crist (as in Jesus)is real is undebatable (unless you are stupid or blind) and I believe that Crist is God.Weather he offered me eternity or not is only secondary to my faith but if not I am not sure if I would behave any different.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I guess I believe we spend our time unsaved until we have repented our sins and follow the ways of God instead of the desires of the self.

Repentance is an interesting concept. If one feels sorrow for what one has done, yet continues to sin, is this repentance? If one feels sorrow, stops the sin, yet still has the desire to sin, is this repentance? O ...[text shortened]... g your neighbor", one needs to define love. What do you think "love" means in this context?

I believe that when we repent it is something that we feel at the time of repenting but we may not have the strenth to truly turn for the long haul.The Bible says we can not do it in our own strenth.Like the new years resolution type of thing we may mean it at the time.Its Like KNOWING that Alcohol(for the alcoholic) will eventually destroy you. Or it may be that we believe that that is what the Bible is telling us is sin but in our own heart we are unsure it matters.What is sin is often open to interpretation. We can be addicted to it. if our sin does not bother anyone else or is not illegal then ?????. I do not mean to use forgivness as an excuse to sin.

I think loving your neighbor means that you love with all your strenth,heart and mind.(and capabilities-both physical and Phsycologically).This is the love of Christ type love.Help whenever needed(or wanted),asked,or even to just lend an ear.Do not Judge them( who finds that one easy).Be kind, patient etc etc.Your neighbor is anyone that crosses your path or even not.It refers to every one.
I am not to good with this one at times.

Originally posted by jimmac
I believe that when we repent it is something that we feel at the time of repenting but we may not have the strenth to truly turn for the long haul.The Bible says we can not do it in our own strenth.Like the new years resolution type of thing we may mean it at the time.Its Like KNOWING that Alcohol(for the alcoholic) will eventually destroy you. Or it may be ...[text shortened]... crosses your path or even not.It refers to every one.
I am not to good with this one at times.

it is not impossible to stop sinning, people do it cuz they want to at the time like you said. the excuse that "nobody is perfect" or "it is in our nature" is unacceptable.

Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
it is not impossible to stop sinning, people do it cuz they want to at the time like you said. the excuse that "nobody is perfect" or "it is in our nature" is unacceptable.

Christ is the ONLY one without sin. He is The ONLY one that can avoid sinning. That "nobody is perfect" is not an excuse,it is a fact. We are by our very nature sinful. It is immpossible to stop sinning.if it were possible then why did Christ die on the Cross. He died for ALL our sins,past present and future. Sin is often present in our hearts (pride, judgement, jealousy anger, etc) and though we may know this we do not have the strenth to fight these feelings.At these times we may allow ourselves to sin without the guilt. It is important to "know" when you are and pray about it. The knowing can be hard. To me sinning in an action taken against Gods laws. i.e your way, not gods way.

Originally posted by jimmac
Christ is the ONLY one without sin. He is The ONLY one that can avoid sinning. That "nobody is perfect" is not an excuse,it is a fact. We are by our very nature sinful. It is immpossible to stop sinning.if it were possible then why did Christ die on the Cross. He died for ALL our sins,past present and future. Sin is often present in our hearts (pride, judgeme ...[text shortened]... can be hard. To me sinning in an action taken against Gods laws. i.e your way, not gods way.

This is the part of christianity that I hate the most: The idea we are BORN into sin. What a sinister concept, cleverly designed to trap weak minds into thinking the only way out is to believe in the christian god. Not the Jewish god, not the Islam god, just and only just the christian god. I can't think of any religion in the world more sinister and devious than that. That concept should be ground down into molecular sized bits and launched into the sun. So a one minute old infant is already born into sin. I can't tell you how perverted that is. Also convincing the parents of said infant who then has to go through baptism hoops to give the baby ANY chance at quote salvation unquote. That is dibolical. This does not come from a sane god. Your god is insane if it forces you to believe that. There can be no concept more hateful than that. When you base an entire religion on such an evil thing the rest of it falls apart and it is just another excuse to kill.

Originally posted by jimmac
I believe that when we repent it is something that we feel at the time of repenting but we may not have the strenth to truly turn for the long haul.The Bible says we can not do it in our own strenth.Like the new years resolution type of thing we may mean it at the time.Its Like KNOWING that Alcohol(for the alcoholic) will eventually destroy you. Or it may be ...[text shortened]... crosses your path or even not.It refers to every one.
I am not to good with this one at times.

Luke 6:46-49
Why do you call me,'Lord, Lord,' and don't do the things which I say?

Matthew 7:21-23
Not everyone who says to me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will tell me in that day,'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, in your name cast out demons, and in your name do many mighty works?' Then I will tell them,'I never knew you. Depart from me, you who work iniquity.'

From the above, I have to believe that Jesus absolutely calls for one to rise above one's desires for the self and instead follow the ways of the Father. It's difficult to humble oneself enough to understand in one's heart, that one's desires are in the way of following the Father. Once one is able to do this, repentance is achieved. This is what is required.

Originally posted by jimmac
The other day I was confronted by a young man while I was playing the pokies.He claimed that if I died on the way home I would not be saved ( I am Christian) as I was willingly sinning.( his opinion). Who has an opinion on this,not the pokies being a sin but being forgiven or not when we do willingly sin.I believe we ( Christians) are saved once we truly acce ...[text shortened]... can you please state if you are Christian or not. Thank you.

Jim Mc

Do you personally know the young man?

If you do not know him then how could he know if you are a believer or not, unless he has the gift of spiritual discernment?

Originally posted by RBHILL
Do you personally know the young man?

If you do not know him then how could he know if you are a believer or not, unless he has the gift of spiritual discernment?

I told him.

Originally posted by sonhouse
This is the part of christianity that I hate the most: The idea we are BORN into sin. What a sinister concept, cleverly designed to trap weak minds into thinking the only way out is to believe in the christian god. Not the Jewish god, not the Islam god, just and only just the christian god. I can't think of any religion in the world more sinister and deviou ...[text shortened]... ligion on such an evil thing the rest of it falls apart and it is just another excuse to kill.

So you have no answer to that. I thought so. There can be no answer to that from a christian perspective, it rings too close to the truth.

Originally posted by sonhouse
So you have no answer to that. I thought so. There can be no answer to that from a christian perspective, it rings too close to the truth.

The reason I did not reply is that your statememnt (not Question ) is so far from the TRUTH that it was sad. It is not about being born EVIL or anything like you seem to make it sound, it is rather that you are born with the tendency to go your own way (as a preference ) rather than Gods way. Our God, by the way,is the same as the jewish God and the Muslim God. Christianity is about Love,God is Love.It is because of that love that we have a chance through Jesus Crist. We do not have to Earn salvation as many others do.That rings more of evil to me, that we never really know. The refered to baby has an ASSUMED salvation in the Christian faith. He is saved.Baptism, to me at least, is largly symbolic and little to do with the child. It is to claim to everyone that you wish to bring the child up in the faith. Nothing at all in the Christian faith Forces anyone or anything. God gave us free will. Chist does love you.

Jim Mc

Originally posted by jimmac
The reason I did not reply is that your statememnt (not Question ) is so far from the TRUTH that it was sad. It is not about being born EVIL or anything like you seem to make it sound, it is rather that you are born with the tendency to go your own way (as a preference ) rather than Gods way. Our God, by the way,is the same as the jewish God and the Muslim Go ...[text shortened]... or anything. God gave us free will. Chist does love you.

Jim Mc

The problem with your premise is this: you assume you have the same god as muslims and jews but why are they killing one another?
This cannot be coming from a god. This is coming from individuals who simply have proclaimed to have contact and messages from a god. The way I see it is this: if there were a real heirarchy of religious thought leading to one god then it would not matter which individual was chosen by this god to send out the message. The message would be the same from all parties involved and therefore would not be contradicting each other with statements about how good it is to kill those not in accordance with the ONE true religion. The fact that all these individuals starting these religions putting out messages saying to kill others is condemning evidence of this evil coming not from a god but simply from deluded individuals with enough charisma to convice followers he has in fact gotten some message from god and this god says to convert the rest of the planet even if you have to kill to do it. You seem to think that inside some religion, the ones that do good, feed the poor, maybe flog themselves to unconscienceness or convert 19000 people to their religion in places like South America or Borneo which brings nothing but strife and killing yet other societies in the drive to convert, you have to judge the religion by its lowest common denominator, how does it treat its women, how does it treat its enemies. The fact that a religion HAS enemies is strong evidence there was in fact no contact with a god in the original setting up of the religion, therefore whether or not there is a god has nothing to do with it. There is either no god or the god has rolled the dice on our universe and has gone on to other pursuits, leaving the earth to its own devices and thus vulnerable to charismatic obsessive compulsive self-aggrandizing power hungry delusional characters bent on creating a controlling power base, which as you very well know, has succeeded beyond his wildest dreams in most cases. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where a god did not start these contradictory religions because if it did, they would not kill one another.

Originally posted by sonhouse
The problem with your premise is this: you assume you have the same god as muslims and jews but why are they killing one another?
This cannot be coming from a god. This is coming from individuals who simply have proclaimed to have contact and messages from a god. The way I see it is this: if there were a real heirarchy of religious thought leading to one g ...[text shortened]... did not start these contradictory religions because if it did, they would not kill one another.

WoW, I agree with so much of what you are saying--- yet? I am going out soon so I may not do this justice. The Main thing I think is to remember that we have free will and to remember that yes, this evil does come from the individual and not from God. Will respond more later, have to go.
Thanks for the discussion thus far.
Jim Mc