Originally posted by Rajk999 This is really a hard question.
First God apparently prejudges certain people and finds them faithful. And that faith is demonstrated by good works. That is clearly stated in the Bible. Those people are headed for eternal life.
But whether or not He will need to look at their works in detail is another matter. Im tempted to lean on the side of him not ...[text shortened]... t we are all predestined to a certain outcome. That further complicates it unfortunately.
I think I will take my seat and see if this newly introduced idea goes anywhere. I'm content with what you have said about the basic question. My 8th grade teacher Sister Ann Rose would probably say at this point that an idle mind is the devil's workship, meaning, further speculation may lead one into a stray path where what is believed is unimportant and too prone to error and was in fact a distraction, because just meriting heaven was enough of a challenge to keep us boys completely occupied. 🙂
Originally posted by Rajk999 This is really a hard question.
First God apparently prejudges certain people and finds them faithful. And that faith is demonstrated by good works. That is clearly stated in the Bible. Those people are headed for eternal life.
But whether or not He will need to look at their works in detail is another matter. Im tempted to lean on the side of him not ...[text shortened]... t we are all predestined to a certain outcome. That further complicates it unfortunately.
Matt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
This passage is saying that Teachers or Preachers who teach Christ commandments will all be in the kingdom of heaven.
Seems like you are inferring something here that maybe you shouldn't by assuming that "least/great in the kingdom of heaven" implies that they will all be in the kingdom of heaven. I suspect that it's the placement of the preposition that's throwing you.
For example if it were written as follows, I doubt you would make the same assumption:
"Matt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, in the kingdom of heaven he shall be called the least: but whosoever shall do and teach them, in the kingdom of heaven the same shall be called great."
Originally posted by ThinkOfOne [quote][b]Matt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
This passage is saying that Teachers or Preachers who teach Christ commandments will all b ...[text shortened]... shall do and teach them, in the kingdom of heaven the same shall be called great."[/b]
Originally posted by JS357 I think I will take my seat and see if this newly introduced idea goes anywhere. I'm content with what you have said about the basic question. My 8th grade teacher Sister Ann Rose would probably say at this point that an idle mind is the devil's workship, meaning, further speculation may lead one into a stray path where what is believed is unimportant and too ...[text shortened]... because just meriting heaven was enough of a challenge to keep us boys completely occupied. 🙂
Ok.. Im interested in responses to your post as well.
Originally posted by Rajk999 I have no comment on Ghandi or any other person and whether or not they get eternal life. I discuss doctrine, not people.
In terms of doctrine, does the hypothetical generic person who does massively good works helping to improve the quality of life for millions of people, for example, but who rejects jesus as savior, go the hell?
As for alternate paths, some people who accept jesus as savior also believe that there are other paths to heaven, for other people in particular circumstances (i.e., in other religions), for instance. It is an interesting consideration. I mean the Bible seems clear in points that jesus is the only way. Yet, is that limitation only for people exposed to the bible, and not brought up and indoctrinated in other religions.
Originally posted by galveston75 What would quailfy one going to heaven? Did he meet those?
One thing that is not taught anywhere in the Bible is that all "good" people go to heaven.
There are certian qualifications and needs that would allow one to go to heaven and most will not meet that but would still qualify for life here on earth in the future.
Good clear answer. Thx.
Your answer by the way is what I was taught, except that the people who do not go to heaven, go to hell. But I understand that JW does not believe in hell. That is one thing I like about JW.
Originally posted by moon1969 In terms of doctrine, does the hypothetical generic person who does massively good works helping to improve the quality of life for millions of people, for example, but who rejects jesus as savior, go the hell?
As for alternate paths, some people who accept jesus as savior also believe that there are other paths to heaven, for other people in particular ...[text shortened]... n only for people exposed to the bible, and not brought up and indoctrinated in other religions.
Only Christ has the answer to those questions.
I did suggest that Romans 2 has some answers for Gentiles not under any law and how they will be treated. However you did not appear to read it and respond with comments.
Originally posted by Rajk999 Only Christ has the answer to those questions.
I did suggest that Romans 2 has some answers for Gentiles not under any law and how they will be treated. However you did not appear to read it and respond with comments.
You did suggest that scripture and it is meaningful. I did read it and while it is Paul, it is only one scripture, and also for conciseness I did not address it. In general, the bible itself does not seem to discuss thoroughly the notion of alternate paths (other than jesus) to heaven.
Seems to be much more reasonable. If you put it in context of the rest of the passage, it doesn't make any sense that Jesus would be saying that they were all going to be in the kingdom of heaven.
Originally posted by moon1969 You did suggest that scripture and it is meaningful. I did read it and while it is Paul, it is only one scripture, and also for conciseness I did not address it. In general, the bible itself does not seem to discuss thoroughly the notion of alternate paths (other than jesus) to heaven.
Only one scripture? How many do you need?
The Bible says once only . "Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth"
Why cant you accept statements made once only?
Originally posted by moon1969 Good clear answer. Thx.
Your answer by the way is what I was taught, except that the people who do not go to heaven, go to hell. But I understand that JW does not believe in hell. That is one thing I like about JW.
For the exception you mention to have traction, methinks we need some Bible passages that distinguish this "life here on earth in the future" from hell, in terms of the well-being of its presumably eternal residents.
Originally posted by KellyJay No that is Rajk999's way not the Christian way.
Kelly
I think the debacle over the ordination of women within Christianity would seem to negate your point. Interestingly it's not the first time i've seen the 'woman card' being played on this forum by a Christian. I remember jaywill making a similar snide remark against finnegan.
Originally posted by Rajk999 Only one scripture? How many do you need?
The Bible says once only . "Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth"
Why cant you accept statements made once only?
Well there is scripture that states the only way to get to heaven is through Jesus, and thus seems to preclude alternate paths to heaven.
My question for doctrine is that can I get to heaven if I reject jesus as savior. In other words, is there an alternate path. I do not think the single passage of scripture you reference adequately addresses that question, especially considering scripture contradictory to such a notion. Great people like Ghandi who did a lot of good and helped to improve the quality of life for millions, rejected jesus as his savior. According to the scripture below, he apparently did not make it to heaven. His good works and the good works of others is not enough supposedly. Or believing in another savior, for instance, does not do it, even if one grows up and is indoctrinated in another religion. Burn in hell.
You awkwardly suggest that one statement I must accept, as if it is that helpful. In contrast, consider the following.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 17:3 And this is eternal life,that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
Originally posted by moon1969 Well there is scripture that states the only way to get to heaven is through Jesus, and thus seems to preclude alternate paths to heaven.
My question for doctrine is that can I get to heaven if I reject jesus as savior. In other words, is there an alternate path. I do not think the single passage of scripture you reference adequately addresses that que ...[text shortened]... lse, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”[/quote]
Despite what you think the Bible says, you are not in a position to judge who will get eternal life.
There is an 18 year period in the life of Christ which went unrecorded. John also states that if everything Christ did and said were to be written down the world probably would not be able to contain all the Books.
Can your imagination appreciate that?
Why are you obsessed with alternate paths to salvation?
Personal Relationship with Jesus Christ
17 Mar '12 20:30
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