15 Mar 12
Originally posted by moon1969I never said anything about getting to heaven.
So if you are a good person and do good works, let's say massive good works, but you reject christ as savior, you still get into heaven because you can get into heaven on good works alone.
I never said anything about anyone having good works alone.
What I said that according to the teachings of Christ and the Apostles, one must have BOTH Faith and Works to get eternal life.
15 Mar 12
Originally posted by knightmeisterFor the last time you are not entitled to ask any personal questions about me. I will not ask any personal questions about you. The topic is a general one and can be discussed generally.
It's relevant because of what Jesus said. This is a debate about Truth , therefore what Jesus said about Truth should be of some interest to you. I would like to know if you have experienced the Holy Spirit. The reason? - what Jesus said see below......
"He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth. The world cannot receive him, because it isn ...[text shortened]... Jesus' words not mine. Am I not entitled to ask whether the above is true for you or not?
I did quote you these words from Christ which you ignored :
John 14:21-24 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. .. If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
From what I see here, Christ is saying that it is only if someone keep his commandments then he will make his abode with that person.
You seem to think otherwise.
15 Mar 12
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999Fascinating. Thanks for the response. I like the sound of it. But it is blasphemy to many fundamentalist christians. While they may argue that a person who has accepted jesus as savior will want to do good works and will do good works, such good works are not required to get into heaven. Only accepting jesus as savior is required. But I like adding the good works part.
I never said anything about getting to heaven.
I never said anything about anyone having good works alone.
What I said that according to the teachings of Christ and the Apostles, one must have BOTH Faith and Works to get eternal life.
On the different point, are there other paths to heaven besides jesus?
For instance, did Ghandi go to heaven? While he recognized jesus as a path to heaven, he personally rejected jesus as savior. Is Ghandi in hell?
15 Mar 12
Originally posted by moon1969I have no comment on Ghandi or any other person and whether or not they get eternal life. I discuss doctrine, not people.
Fascinating. Thanks for the response. I like the sound of it. But it is blasphemy to many fundamentalist christians. While they may argue that a person who has accepted jesus as savior will want to do good works and will do good works, such good works are not required to get into heaven. Only accepting jesus as savior is required. But I like adding th ...[text shortened]... ecognized jesus as a path to heaven, he personally rejected jesus as savior. Is Ghandi in hell?
Read Romans 2: 1-16, and tell me what you think Paul is saying.
16 Mar 12
Originally posted by Rajk999You are very insulting, I suggest you go back and look at how you treat others no need to quote since most of your posts carry a very nasty tone.
You lack the ability to read and understand simple English.
Please quote or say in your own words where I boasted about anything.
Please also quote or say in your own words where I 'lamblast' anyone who does not meet my standards [regarding works .. I presume that is what you mean]
All I have done is to quote where Christ and the Apostles state clearly that works are essential or that everyone will be judged by their works.
Kelly
16 Mar 12
Originally posted by Rajk999You sound very tetchy about all this. Chill out Rajk.
For the last time you are not entitled to ask any personal questions about me. I will not ask any personal questions about you. The topic is a general one and can be discussed generally.
I did quote you these words from Christ which you ignored :
[i]John 14:21-24 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that lov ...[text shortened]... his commandments then he will make his abode with that person.
You seem to think otherwise.
Fine ,if you will not discuss personal matters would you at least be prepared to comment on what Christ said below and what it might mean for the believer? You can do this very indirectly and discreetly. I'll do you a deal I will address your quotes from scripture and you can address mine. Can't say fairer that that can we?
"He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth. The world cannot receive him, because it isn't looking for him and doesn't recognize him. But you know him, because he lives with you now and later will be in you. " New Living Translation John 14:17
16 Mar 12
Originally posted by Rajk999From what I see here, Christ is saying that it is only if someone keep his commandments then he will make his abode with that person.
For the last time you are not entitled to ask any personal questions about me. I will not ask any personal questions about you. The topic is a general one and can be discussed generally.
I did quote you these words from Christ which you ignored :
[i]John 14:21-24 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that lov ...[text shortened]... his commandments then he will make his abode with that person.
You seem to think otherwise.
-------------rajk---------------------
Exactly , "FROM WHAT YOU SEE HERE" - it's your interpretation. However , my understanding is that we are supposed to look at scripture and doctrine with an overview as well as looking at specifics. It has to be seen in the context of everything else as well. Both you and ToOne have a clear habit of constantly focusing and repeating specific passages over and over again to the exclusion of anything else.
BTW- What do you think it means for Christ to make his abode with someone?
16 Mar 12
Originally posted by Rajk999I discuss doctrine, not people.
I have no comment on Ghandi or any other person and whether or not they get eternal life. I discuss doctrine, not people.
Read Romans 2: 1-16, and tell me what you think Paul is saying.
------rajk------------------
But a doctrine that does not engage with people on a personal level is irrelevant. The whole Bible is about people and their relationship with God.
You sound very robotic in your responses some times Rajk. I don't mean to get at you but where's your humanity? You seem to hide it very well.
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16 Mar 12
Originally posted by Rajk999Paul is saying that the Jews are subject to the law, (works) but we (Gentiles are not).
I have no comment on Ghandi or any other person and whether or not they get eternal life. I discuss doctrine, not people.
Read Romans 2: 1-16, and tell me what you think Paul is saying.
However we Gentiles do the law (works) because the love of Jesus is written on our hearts.
16 Mar 12
Originally posted by knightmeisterI have been in churches before where the pastor starts shouting "IM SAVED . .. YOU ARE SAVED .. JUST ACCEPT CHRIST ... BLAH BLAH BLAH ... "
I discuss doctrine, not people.
------rajk------------------
But a doctrine that does not engage with people on a personal level is irrelevant. The whole Bible is about people and their relationship with God.
You sound very robotic in your responses some times Rajk. I don't mean to get at you but where's your humanity? You seem to hide it very well.
After about 5 min of that I just walk .. saying in my mind "Good luck to you people "
So Im walking .. "Good luck to you KM, KJ, Suzainne, Jaywill .. whoever"
I will see you on other threads. Im done with this topic.
16 Mar 12
Originally posted by Rajk999It's a shame that your heart is not yet healed of anger and judgement. You sound very brittle and touchy.
I have been in churches before where the pastor starts shouting "IM SAVED . .. YOU ARE SAVED .. JUST ACCEPT CHRIST ... BLAH BLAH BLAH ... "
After about 5 min of that I just walk .. saying in my mind "Good luck to you people "
So Im walking .. "Good luck to you KM, KJ, Suzainne, Jaywill .. whoever"
I will see you on other threads. Im done with this topic.
If I have offended or hurt you in anyway then I apologize. I pray that the Holy Spirit will soften your heart and tenderize your anger and self righteous indignation. I promise you this. Unless you allow Jesus into your innermost parts and let Him hold you intimately like a child and forgive you will not find peace.
I say the following not to criticize but for your own good. You have no idea what God's love is really about.
16 Mar 12
Originally posted by knightmeisterBoy .. you are a real drama queen. I think you need to find yourself and nice man and settle down KM.
It's a shame that your heart is not yet healed of anger and judgement. You sound very brittle and touchy.
If I have offended or hurt you in anyway then I apologize. I pray that the Holy Spirit will soften your heart and tenderize your anger and self righteous indignation. I promise you this. Unless you allow Jesus into your innermost parts and let ...[text shortened]... wing not to criticize but for your own good. You have no idea what God's love is really about.