Originally posted by twhitehead
So is rape. That doesn't make it a good idea.

As Od Bod noted, it's fairly rare in the animal kingdom, although there are documented cases. Other mammals have oestrus rather than mensuration, so the males tend not to be interested in the females at other times, during oestrus the females are receptive anyway.

But your post misses something about rape. The driver for it is connected with power as much as sex. This just isn't relevant to tigers for example, being non-social. One case I heard described on a natural history program on BBC Radio 4 (ages ago sorry I can't give a reference) they were observing a tribe of primates (baboons I think) and the alpha male was displaced by an outsider. He then raped the alpha female, who wasn't on heat. The zoologist described it as highly unusual behaviour. But it was connected with power and not sex. Power relations are especially important in human societies, at least since the neolithic.

Originally posted by OdBod
It is possible to make an observation without approving of it.

I know. But at least give a reason for making the observation.

If the offspring of an animal is damaged by physical discipline it may compromise its ability to reproduce, thus it is in the interest of the parent to use MILD discipline.
Maybe, maybe not. Some parents eat their children.

Duchess was correct in pointing out that Primates seem to exhibit more aggressive sexual behaviour than most of the other mammals,
Are you sure? I have seen some pretty aggressive behavior in other mammals too. As for birds, rape is rather common.

this brings me to the other point I was trying to make . That because man as a species has been so successful certain evolutionary weakness becomes less important. My conclusion and suggestion being, strip away "civilization" and we are basic animals, a child must learn social rules they are not born with them, and therefore the animal kingdom may be able to teach us something.
So what does the animal kingdom teach us with regards to disciplining children?

Originally posted by DeepThought
As Od Bod noted, it's fairly rare in the animal kingdom,...

Often due to the difficulty in achieving it. If you lack hands, its not always easy to hold her down. We kept ducks and they engaged in rape frequently. They use their beaks.

Other mammals have oestrus rather than mensuration, so the males tend not to be interested in the females at other times, during oestrus the females are receptive anyway.
No, they are not receptive to every male passer by. They can be quite choosy. One solution males use is to chase away or kill the competition.

But your post misses something about rape. The driver for it is connected with power as much as sex.
In humans yes. But although my post missed that point, its irrelevant to the point I was making which was that it happens in nature, thus any argument along the lines of 'its natural therefore its OK' is flawed.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I know. But at least give a reason for making the observation.

[b]If the offspring of an animal is damaged by physical discipline it may compromise its ability to reproduce, thus it is in the interest of the parent to use MILD discipline.
Maybe, maybe not. Some parents eat their children.

Duchess was correct in pointing out that Primates see ...[text shortened]... something.
So what does the animal kingdom teach us with regards to disciplining children?[/b]

Birds are not mammals. Nature suggests mild discipline is acceptable.

Originally posted by OdBod
Birds are not mammals.

I know. I never suggested otherwise. Although it is interesting that you do not wish to discuss birds. Are they unnatural?

Nature suggests mild discipline is acceptable
No, it doesn't. Please try and support such a claim. I have already demonstrated that just because it happens in nature it doesn't prove that it is acceptable (unless you want to say rape is acceptable too).

Originally posted by DeepThought
As Od Bod noted, it's fairly rare in the animal kingdom, although there are documented cases.

Fairly rare!? Good grief... Ducks, for one, rarely do anything but rape one another.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I know. I never suggested otherwise. Although it is interesting that you do not wish to discuss birds. Are they unnatural?

[b]Nature suggests mild discipline is acceptable
No, it doesn't. Please try and support such a claim. I have already demonstrated that just because it happens in nature it doesn't prove that it is acceptable (unless you want to say rape is acceptable too).[/b]

Your preoccupation with rape is strange. I do not wish to discuss issues with someone who maintains they are always right, no point is there?

Originally posted by OdBod
Your preoccupation with rape is strange.

Not at all. Its a perfectly valid counter argument.

I do not wish to discuss issues with someone who maintains they are always right, no point is there?
When have I maintained I am always right?
Every time you fail to come up with anything to support your claims, you attack me. Try actually making an argument.
You have claimed that because it happens in nature, its OK. I have demonstrated with the rape example that that is not true. You can either explain why the rape example doesn't fit your claim, or you can admit you were wrong.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Note to my enemies before I begin. I am NOT advocating physically disciplining children, I am merely seeking to find out what is the rational behind banning it.

Legally the only European countries to allow corporal punishment in both the home and school are the Czech Republic and France.

The Bible itself allows for the physical disciplining o ...[text shortened]... what is the rational behind banning the physical disciplining of children in school or the home?

I believe spanking small children on the hand is sufficent in most cases. In more extreme cases, I believe a limber small diameter switch of about 3 to 4 feet long used on their bare rear (butt) should probably do the trick. 😏

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
I think it's fairly well-established that beating children hurts them.

I have live out of my parents house for 7+ years. I have never had any PTSD from their physical discipline.

Originally posted by twhitehead
Often due to the difficulty in achieving it. If you lack hands, its not always easy to hold her down. We kept ducks and they engaged in rape frequently. They use their beaks.

[b]Other mammals have oestrus rather than mensuration, so the males tend not to be interested in the females at other times, during oestrus the females are receptive anyway.
...[text shortened]... appens in nature, thus any argument along the lines of 'its natural therefore its OK' is flawed.[/b]

It's also documented in dolphins at an interspecies level - wild male bottlenose dolphins will assault smaller species for no obvious purpose. That that is the case in some species does not indicate that it is a general rule, or particularly frequent. Also do wild ducks do this? Animals in captivity exhibit all sorts of behaviours not seen in the wild.

Originally posted by DeepThought
Also do wild ducks do this?

Yes. It is so prevalent that the females have evolved counter strategies.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11764-female-ducks-fight-back-against-raping-males.html#.VPy2nvmUcpU