1. Joined
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    02 Apr '05 21:35
    He's with God now. Karol Wojtyla is redeemed from all this pain in the world
  2. Felicific Forest
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    02 Apr '05 22:24

    May he rest in peace.
  3. London
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    02 Apr '05 23:20
    Originally posted by ivanhoe

    May he rest in peace.
    Amen to that.
  4. Graceland.
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    02 Apr '05 23:27
    Sad as it is, I see his death more as a celebration. A devout Christian finishing his last days on Earth.

    Not that I am a catholic either, but he really did come across as the real deal.

    pc
  5. SubscriberAThousandYoung
    Just another day
    tinyurl.com/y8wgt7a5
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    03 Apr '05 00:061 edit
    Originally posted by JezuUfamTobie
    He's with God now. Karol Wojtyla is redeemed from all this pain in the world
    I don't think he is with God. I think he no longer exists. He is freed from pain (is this what you mean by 'redeemed'?), this is true, and from all pleasure.
  6. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
    Pittsburgh, PA
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    03 Apr '05 05:151 edit
    Originally posted by pcaspian
    Sad as it is, I see his death more as a celebration. A devout Christian finishing his last days on Earth.

    Not that I am a catholic either, but he really did come across as the real deal.

    pc
    This is a very healthy Christian attitude, one which I find rare.
    Within the context of Christian theology, death is not an ending,
    but a transformation; through it, the devout go back to God.

    Given that being with God is better than being here, one ought
    to celebrate. Indeed, the vernacular of the Roman Rite no longer
    has a 'dirge-like' feel to the funeral; the dramatic Requiems which
    we know through music are long gone. It is a Mass in celebration
    of the Life and Resurrection of the decedant.

    When a person cries at a funeral, it is because they have had to
    surrender someone that they cared about. It is a natural, but selfish
    action. It is based on a corporeal understanding of life. Christianity
    (and most other faiths) teaches a Spiritual understanding of life, that
    death is merely a transfer of medium for earthly to heavenly, that life
    has not ended, it has merely been changed. Their faith should remind
    them of this and give them strength during the difficult times ahead.

    Of course, you, PCaspian, have a certain detachment to the situation
    that Ivanhoe does not have. You have not followed his words, teachings
    and actions over the years with the intensity of a Roman Catholic like
    Ivanhoe. This is a very tumultuous time for the Church and I'd like to
    think that all of the theistic world, Christian and non-Christian alike,
    would pray for a Spirit-filled Conclave and a wise new Pope. And, I'd
    further hope that people would pray for all of the RCs, that their grieving
    might be lessened by a comfort in their own faith's teaching.

    That he was devout cannot be questioned. That he was misguided is,
    has been, and will be the subject of debate for decades to come.

    Nemesio
  7. Standard memberNemesio
    Ursulakantor
    Pittsburgh, PA
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    03 Apr '05 05:18
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    I don't think he is with God. I think he no longer exists. He is freed from pain (is this what you mean by 'redeemed'?), this is true, and from all pleasure.
    His corporeal 'self' certainly no longer exists. But immortality doesn't restrict itself
    to a soul-based construct. His teachings, his influence, his inspiration to those play
    a role in the continuum of existance. As such, he does and will continue to exist (as
    will us all), even when people have forgotten his name.

    Nemesio
  8. Account suspended
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    03 Apr '05 10:15
    Originally posted by Nemesio
    His corporeal 'self' certainly no longer exists. But immortality doesn't restrict itself
    to a soul-based construct. His teachings, his influence, his inspiration to those play
    a role in the continuum of existance. As such, he does and will continue to exist (as
    will us all), even when people have forgotten his name.

    Nemesio
    You have just looked that up in the Bible sunshine. It is not big and it is not clever.
  9. Standard memberMaustrauser
    Lord Chook
    Stringybark
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    03 Apr '05 10:29
    Originally posted by JezuUfamTobie
    He's with God now. Karol Wojtyla is redeemed from all this pain in the world
    How much pain did he inflict on the world. Can we have some balance in this debate please? No man or woman is perfect or all good. Even God's representative on earth. How many people has Karol Wojtyla condemed to death by AIDS for his ludicrous views on condom use?

    Who knows. Millions or tens of millions?
  10. Joined
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    03 Apr '05 10:55
    Originally posted by Maustrauser
    How much pain did he inflict on the world. Can we have some balance in this debate please? No man or woman is perfect or all good. Even God's representative on earth. How many people has Karol Wojtyla condemed to death by AIDS for his ludicrous views on condom use?

    Who knows. Millions or tens of millions?
    Not being a devout christian or Roman Catholic I don't know much about the Pope, but he did seem capable of uniting millions of people, and was instrumental in freeing Poland from communism. I'm kinda sad that he's gone, seemed such a sweet old man.

    I tend to agree with you on his views on birth control, although he himself would probably have advocated complete abstinence from sex outside marriage, rather than unprotected sex. Even worse is the notion bing proposed by at least one bishop in South Africa, that condoms don't stop the AIDS virus from spreading...
  11. Account suspended
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    03 Apr '05 13:212 edits
    Originally posted by Maustrauser
    How much pain did he inflict on the world. Can we have some balance in this debate please? No man or woman is perfect or all good. Even God's representative on earth. How many people has Karol Wojtyla condemed to death by AIDS for ...[text shortened]... views on condom use?

    Who knows. Millions or tens of millions?
    Didn't know he had a Woman's name like, thought he got Christened the Pope. pfffft.

    Ps. Homosexual club for him.
  12. NY
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    03 Apr '05 14:36
    He is a part of the all now...
  13. London
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    03 Apr '05 16:591 edit
    Originally posted by Maustrauser
    How much pain did he inflict on the world. Can we have some balance in this debate please? No man or woman is perfect or all good. Even God's representative on earth. How many people has Karol Wojtyla condemed to death by AIDS for ...[text shortened]... views on condom use?

    Who knows. Millions or tens of millions?
    This is silly. Long before the Pope or the Church spoke of contraception it spoke out against adultery (the Sixth Commandment). It's ridiculous to blame the Pope for reiterating Church policy on condoms when people are blatantly rejecting other Church teachings (like fidelity) that go with it.
  14. Standard memberRBHILL
    Acts 13:48
    California
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    03 Apr '05 22:32
    Originally posted by Maustrauser
    How much pain did he inflict on the world. Can we have some balance in this debate please? No man or woman is perfect or all good. Even God's representative on earth. How many people has Karol Wojtyla condemed to death by AIDS for his ludicrous views on condom use?

    Who knows. Millions or tens of millions?
    I will have to agree with you on this.

    But also it is the persons fault for having sex with out protection and outside of marriage, so it is their own fault if they get Aids.
  15. Standard memberfrogstomp
    Bruno's Ghost
    In a hot place
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    04 Apr '05 09:52
    jeez, Give da old fella at least time to get planted b4 yall P on his grave.
    Whatever you think about the man, it can wait.
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