Originally posted by FMFWhat would be the basis of your disagreement if you were to disagree with someone whose view is not any less true than yours?
I challenge people on this debate and discussion message board if I disagree with their beliefs or if their beliefs seem to be affecting their intellect or integrity.
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Originally posted by FetchmyjunkI suppose the basis of disagreement, when you boil it down, is what each and every contributor thinks is true, false, possible, impossible, credible or incredible. When these things conflict, there may be disagreements. People here are just exchanging ideas, opinions, hopes, fears, and stuff like that. That's all.
What would be the basis of your disagreement if you were to disagree with someone whose view is not any less true than yours?
Originally posted by sonshipRead what Jesus said sometime. Its in your New Testament. Here is a sample. Let me know if you need more. Lots and lots like it and its completely the opposite of what you say. YOU ARE THEREFORE A FALSE TEACHER, MISLEADING THE UNINFORMED AND ANNOYING THOSE WHO WHO KNOW BETTER.
Read [b]Romans 8 sometime. Its in your New Testament.[/b]
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. (John 15:10 KJV)
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. (John 14:21 KJV)
.. If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. (John 14:23 KJV)
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Originally posted by FMFBut from your perspective where everyone's opinion is equally true, what is the point of disagreeing?
I suppose the basis of disagreement, when you boil it down, is what each and every contributor thinks is true, false, possible, impossible, credible or incredible. When these things conflict, there may be disagreements. People here are just exchanging ideas, opinions, hopes, fears, and stuff like that. That's all.
It's like someone who believes that 3x4=12 disagreeing with someone who believes 6x2=12.
From my perspective it makes sense to disagree with a view your believe to be false, but from yours it doesn't since everyone's view is relatively right.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkI think you've misunderstood. It is more that people express an opinion in the belief that what they say is true, and not that, 'everyone's opinion is equally true.' (Which clearly isn't the case).
But from your perspective where everyone's opinion is equally true, what is the point of disagreeing?
It's like someone who believes that 3x4=12 disagreeing with someone who believes 6x2=12.
From my perspective it makes sense to disagree with a view your believe to be false, but from yours it doesn't since everyone's view is relatively right.
Hence the point in disagreeing and debating. It's like a card game where everyone comes to the table believing they have the winning hand, when in reality some people are only holding a pair of sevens. A successful debate should result in the person holding the pair of sevens realising their hand is weak and throwing away their cards.
The problem is (Fetchmyjunk) when people blindly hang on to those sevens, even when confronted with a royal flush.
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Originally posted by Rajk999
Read what Jesus said sometime. Its in your New Testament. Here is a sample. Let me know if you need more. Lots and lots like it and its completely the opposite of what you say. YOU ARE THEREFORE A FALSE TEACHER, MISLEADING THE UNINFORMED AND ANNOYING THOSE WHO WHO KNOW BETTER.
Read what Jesus said sometime.
The speaking of Jesus of course continues in His apostles.
Romans also contains the speaking of Jesus.
I am examining Romans here because a faithful apostle Paul pioneered into the experience of living by, through and in the resurrected Christ.
You won't share any of your experience with anyone (If you have any). So thankfully we have brother Paul to help us.
Its in your New Testament. Here is a sample. Let me know if you need more. Lots and lots like it and its completely the opposite of what you say. YOU ARE THEREFORE A FALSE TEACHER, MISLEADING THE UNINFORMED AND ANNOYING THOSE WHO WHO KNOW BETTER.
There are stark similarities between the "red letters" of Jesus in His earthly ministry and the epistles of Paul speaking from Christ's heavenly ministry.
Perhaps we can examine some.
1.) Paul's key to living Christ is to set the mind on the spirit.
2.) Christ does reveal that the heart (which includes the mind) is the storehouse from which all behavior issues forth.
" For out of the heart come evil reasonings, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witnessings, blasphemies. These are the things which defile the man." (Matt. 15:19,20)
Evil reasonings come "out of the HEART". This proves that the reasoning MIND is part of the HEART of man.
So the mind is very central to learning to live Christ.
Of course Matthew 15:20 is not something altogether new. Even God's speaking in the Old Testament warned man to guard the heart because from it issue forth the flow of life and living.
Proverbs 4:23
GOD'S WORD® Translation
Guard your heart more than anything else, because the source of your life flows from it.
King James 2000 Bible
Keep your heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.
American King James Version
Keep your heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.
American Standard Version
Keep thy heart with all diligence; For out of it are the issues of life.
Since the issue of life and living come forth from the heart (and especially the leading part of the heart - the mind) the guarding of your mind and the setting of your mind is crucial in determining what will flow forth in your behavior.
The guarding of the heart and the regulating of the reasoning mind for the Christian is to set the mind on the spirit where the Spirit of Jesus Christ IS.
"For the mind set on the flesh is death. ..."
To set the mind on the fallen old nature is death.
This is to not guard the heart for the Christian.
" ... but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace."
Setting the mind on Jesus Christ Who is living in the innermost spiritual being of the Christian will cause life and peace to issue forth.
Here is a real correspondence between the "red letter" words of Jesus and the speaking of Jesus from heaven through His faithful Apostle Paul.
The reasonings are transformed from evil to godly by the turning of the mind to set it ON the Spirit of Christ Who is "one spirit" in the man joined to the Lord.
Instead of sinful living and evil reasonings flowing forth, divine life and peace flow forth. And the living of Christ flows forth.
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A good way to set the mind on the spirit is to use the mouth. The mind is indeed like a locomotive engine - very strong and incessant. You can help to set the mind on the spirit with the mouth . And this precious truth is in Romans 8 as well.
Here it is in the calling or crying of Abba Father. That is speaking out to and calling to the Father - with the mouth.
"For you have not received a spirit of slavery [i[bringing[/i] you into fear again, but you have received a spirit of sonship in which we cry Abba Father!
The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God." (Rom. 8:15,16)
1.) This is an encouragement rather than a discouragement to call out to God as Father even as Daddy, as Abba, as Papa in an intimate way.
2.) The calling Abba Father proves a regenerated spirit of being livingly related to God as a child rather than a legalistic slave relationship.
[quote] "You have not received a spirit of slavery bringing you into fear again, ..." [quote]
The phrase "fear AGAIN" must refer to the failed fearful legalistic striving of what Paul wrote in Romans chapter 7. In that previous portion Paul spoke of the wretchedness and fearfulness of not being able to keep the law of God.
3.) Instead of a spirit of slaver the regenerated man receives a spirit of sonship. He is one with the life of the Father. The Father's life is a totally righteous life. The Father's life in in Christ and Christ is victorious.
Now the very overcoming Christ has also made the believer and the caller one of the children of God.
4.) As the caller calls "Abba Father" the Holy Spirit bears witness with the caller's regenerated spirit. The two spirits are joined (1 Cor. 6:17). And together they witness that one has a LIFE relationship with God.
The mouth calls "Abba Father, my own Daddy! Abba, Papa God. Dad God!!" and the Spirit bears witness with the human spirit that one is in the divine family. She is one of the children of God.
5.) Calling Abba Father with the mouth is only REPRESENTATIVE. It is not to be legally taken as exhaustive, as if this is the one and only way of calling out to God.
"Oh, Lord" is also a way to call.
"O Lord Jesus, Lord Jesus" is also a calling in which the Spirit bears witness within.
Calling "Praise the Lord" or calling "Lord Jesus Amen" or "Abba, MY OWN FATHER"
Are also ways to set the mind on the spirit with the mouth.
6.) The practice of calling Abba Father is not meant here to be the all and be all of the Christian life. This is not a teaching on "Nothing else matters".
This is scriptural indication that we can turn our mind to set it on the spirit with the mouth. This is done in LOVE. We call out to the Father because we love the Father. Who can possibly debate against this ?
Calling Abba Father is not a mantra. It is simply turning the heart TO God. In love the Christian turns her heart to the Father.
It does not necessitate causing a ruckus. Even to whisper "Abba Father" will be benefitial. No one else need to hear you. That Father in heaven hears you.
Calling alound and loudly "Abba Father" is also not forbidden if place and time permit it. Whether loudly or softly, calling "O Abba Father" or "O Lord Jesus" is good. You use the mouth to set the restless mind on the regenerated human spirit and life and peace flow forth.
Originally posted by sonshipMouth, empty words, talk.
A good way to set the mind on the spirit is to use the mouth. The mind is indeed like a locomotive engine - very strong and incessant. You can help to set the mind on the spirit [b] with the mouth . And this precious truth is in Romans 8 as well.
Here it is in the calling or crying of Abba Father. That is speaking out to and call ...[text shortened]... he mouth to set the restless mind on the regenerated human spirit and life and peace flow forth.[/b]
Nothing of substance. Nothing from Christ.
No charity, no good works, no, loving others as you love yourself.
No selflessness
You preach mouth worship and love of self.
Your doctrine is the road to eternal damnation.
Originally posted by FMFEarlier I said, "clearly it seems you subscribe to a 'relativist' view on truth and therefore you can't believe that your beliefs are any closer to the truth than anyone else's..."
Huh? You're talking nonsense.
You did not challenge this statement. Now you say I am talking nonsense. So which part is nonsense exactly and why?
Originally posted by Rajk999Without faith it is impossible to please God. So all any 'works' that are done without faith do not please God.
Mouth, empty words, talk.
Nothing of substance. Nothing from Christ.
No charity, no good works, no, loving others as you love yourself.
No selflessness
You preach mouth worship and love of self.
Your doctrine is the road to eternal damnation.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkI've never said everyone's opinion is right, or anything even remotely like it. You're just fabricating it. I've talked about my 'take on truth' over and over again. And you've ignored what I said over and over again. And you've asked the same things over and over again. It's boring.
So if your take on truth is not one of 'relativism', what is it?
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkYes. You were talking nonsense. There are a lot of stupid disingenuous things you say - where you carefully ignore things I have already said - that I have not challenged. Or rather, that I did perhaps challenge at certain points in the past, but you just ignored it when I did. And so I don't challenge every single daft repeated oblivious disingenuous leading question you hack out anymore; and you know exactly why. Yes. It's because I think you are just trolling.
Earlier I said, " [blah blah blah blah]"
You did not challenge this statement. Now you say I am talking nonsense.