Originally posted by sonshipNo I simply refuse to red long-winded texts. There is no necessity for such long-winded speech. Christ himself was very succinct.
Then you are satisfied with remaining in ignorance.
I read your posts carefully. Particualry, that is, when there is a need to debate a matter.
I do not always read your posts when I am not directly debating your point.
If you do not reciprocate that is YOUR weakness and YOUR loss.
The topic is how to practically get into fulfilling Christ's command "Abide in Me and I in you." in John 15.
To repeat - FIRST we have to get the Lord Jesus into our hearts - into our innermost kernel and spiritual being. His justification and redemption is the only way that this is possible.
This thread assumes many readers have taken that step already. They have BEEN reconciled. And having BEEN reconciled they desire to be SAVED in His life.
" For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled." (Rom. 5:10)
Paul begins to make a shift at this point in Romans. He is shifting from Justification and reconciliation to sanctification. And he diagnosis man's problem in chapter 7. And he begins to give the practical way to undergo subjection and dispositional sanctification in chapter 8. Sanctification is there to be saved in His life.
Something of hints to chapter 8 are given in that wonderful chapter 6. That is a chapter on Identification.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieLongwindedness is required when one chooses to depart from Christ.
No I simply refuse to red long-winded texts. There is no necessity for such long-winded speech. Christ himself was very succinct.
Like you said, Christ was simple and direct. No interpretation and explanation is required.
Originally posted by Rajk999THIS was intended for Robbie:
Longwindedness is required when one chooses to depart from Christ.
Like you said, Christ was simple and direct. No interpretation and explanation is required.
Chat, I am not really interested in.
Some of your substantial paragraphs I did read.
You boast and seem to relish that you do not reciprocate.
"I cannot even finish reading that long winded post."
So forget it.
Besides we've been through this dance before. I address others, maybe newcomers to the Forum.
Originally posted by sonshipYou asked where was the Holy Spirit breathed into Adam and you were given the answer and you now seek to remain wilfully ignorant of the fact, fine, but your paganism is being exposed for what it is and even if you will not read it, others will.
If you won't take time to read my reply I will not bother reading yours.
The Greek pneu´ma (spirit) comes from pne´o, meaning “breathe or blow,” and the Hebrew ru´ach (spirit) is believed to come from a root having the same meaning. Ru´ach and pneu´ma, then, basically mean “breath” but have extended meanings beyond that basic sense. (Compare Hab 2:19; Re 13:15.) They can also mean wind; the vital force in living creatures; one’s spirit; spirit persons, including God and his angelic creatures; and God’s active force, or holy spirit. (Compare Koehler and Baumgartner’s Lexicon in Veteris Testamenti Libros, Leiden, 1958, pp. 877-879; Brown, Driver, and Briggs’ Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament, 1980, pp. 924-926; Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, edited by G. Friedrich, translated by G. Bromiley, 1971, Vol. VI, pp. 332-451.) All these meanings have something in common: They all refer to that which is invisible to human sight and which gives evidence of force in motion. Such invisible force is capable of producing visible effects.
Though the Holy Spirit is JOINED to the human spirit, the newly joined human being is not use to living in the realm of this united and mingled Spirit of God JOINED with his human spirit.
So there is a process, and even a life long one, of learning to set the mind on the spirit.
"For those who are according to the flesh mind the things of the flesh; but those who are according to the spirit, the things of the Spirit.
For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace." (Rom. 8:5,6)
I will go back over these two verses and explain why I think this is the best usage of the captital S and the small s. This is significant.
First is is important to realize that when Paul says that the mind set on the flesh is death, he is not only talking about the beating heart stopping.
The DEATH that he speaks of includes the DEATH he has elaborated on in the previous chapter 7. That is the death of weakness, inability to live up to the law of God. This is a "death" to Paul.
The body of this death means the death WHILE his heart is still beating.
"Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death." (7:24)
The set on the flesh is DEATH.
The mind that is according to the flesh is DEATH.
Setting his mind on where Christ the Lord is JOINED to him within is "life and peace" and will deliver him and us from "the body of this death".
Now "the flesh" in chapter 7 and 8 is not just the physical body. It is the totality of the whole fallen man.
The fallen human being is referred to as "the flesh". The fall has rendered man captive to the sin in the members of his body. This makes man's whole being enslaved to the sin nature as "the flesh" in Paul's writing.
Yet an indication of this is even in the book of Genesis. When man degrades lower and lower in the fall, being more and more corrupted. God says that man has become flesh.
"And Jehovah said, My Spirit will not strive with man forever, for he indeed is flesh; ..." (Genesis 6:3a)
Shortly after God says that the END of all flesh has come when human society reached its rock bottom in degradation and corruption.
" And God said to Noah, The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence because of them; and now I am about to destroy them with the earth." (Gen. 6:13)
You may notice if you are reading Robbie's complaints, that he heavily relies on the Old Testament.
Now the revelation of God is indeed a progressive revelation. But some Bible readers have an arrested development in receiving the word of God. They settle down into what agrees with what they want to believe.
Some Christians are like this too. Their book of Romans may only have one or two chapters.
Other Christians go on and have perhaps four chapters in their book of Romans.
Others go beyond Justification and go on to Sanctification starting in chapter 5.
Yet their book of Romans may seem to end at chapter 5.
Some Christians go on to chapter 6. They will talk about reckoning yourselves dead and buried with Christ. But even at this stage they may not go much further.
This thread covers things crucial to the Christian life which are in chapter 8. But even chapter 8 is not the WHOLE book of Romans. But I concentrate here on chapter 8.
As you can see, some are perplexed by these things nearly completely. They have never gotten into the experiences of Romans 8.
As for Jehovah's Witnesses, they pretty much have only chapter one. And to beef up all they understand about the wrath of God coming and the sinfulness of man they resort to much revisiting of the Old Testament.
This is not altogether wrong. But it is arrested, stunted, and shows they have stopped at God's condemnation.
We should go on to Justification, Redemption, Reconciliation, Sanctification, Identification, Glorfication, and even the Body of Christ and the churches in chapters 12 - 16.
Originally posted by sonshipHe who is joined to the Lord is one spirit.
The Holy Spirit is JOINED to the human spirit in regeneration to become [b]"one spirit"."He who is JOINED to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17)[/b]
What about he who is NOT joined to the Lord? That one is NOT "one spirit" with the Lord.
Yes, he may be a son of Adam. And to the first man God breathed the breath of life into him. But there are men JOINED to the Lord. And there are men NOT JOINED to the Lord.
The ones who are JOINED to the Lord have their human spirit mingled with the Holy Spirit.
"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit." (1 Cor. 6:17)
The JWs cannot teach that all human beings are one spirit with the Lord.
Nor can they teach that all humans have the Holy Spirit.
Has Robbie yet shown that Genesis says God breathed the Holy Spirit into Adam ??
Originally posted by sonshipYes he has and your way of dealing with it was to state that he relies heavily on the old testament when infact he cited two scriptures, one from the Hebrew and the other from the Greek portion of the Bible. Furthermore the apostle himself states that ALL scripture is inspired of God. he did not say that only the Greek portion is inspired unless I am mistaken.
Has Robbie yet shown that Genesis says God breathed the Holy Spirit into Adam ??[/b]
The Greek pneu´ma (spirit) comes from pne´o, meaning “breathe or blow,” and the Hebrew ru´ach (spirit) is believed to come from a root having the same meaning. Ru´ach and pneu´ma, then, basically mean “breath” but have extended meanings beyond that basic sense. (Compare Hab 2:19; Re 13:15.) They can also mean wind; the vital force in living creatures; one’s spirit; spirit persons, including God and his angelic creatures; and God’s active force, or holy spirit. (Compare Koehler and Baumgartner’s Lexicon in Veteris Testamenti Libros, Leiden, 1958, pp. 877-879; Brown, Driver, and Briggs’ Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament, 1980, pp. 924-926; Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, edited by G. Friedrich, translated by G. Bromiley, 1971, Vol. VI, pp. 332-451.) All these meanings have something in common: They all refer to that which is invisible to human sight and which gives evidence of force in motion. Such invisible force is capable of producing visible effects.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieNone of this negates that the New Testament pneumatic Christ was not yet until Jesus was glorified.
Yes he has and your way of dealing with it was to state that he relies heavily on the old testament when infact he cited two scriptures, one from the Hebrew and the other from the Greek portion of the Bible. Furthermore the apostle himself states that ALL scripture is inspired of God. he did not say that only the Greek portion is inspired unless I a ...[text shortened]... gives evidence of force in motion. Such invisible force is capable of producing visible effects.
" But this He said concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed into Him were about to receive;
for the Spirit was not yet because Jesus was not yet glorified." (John 7:39)
That angels are referred to as spirits doesn't change this.
That the breath or ruach was breathed into Adam doesn't change this.
That there are evil spirits doesn't change this.
Even that a passage speaks of the spirit or (breath) of beasts doesn't change this. (Ecclesiastes)
All Robbie's appealing to Lexicons to show how "spirit" was used in various ways throughout the Scriptures doesn't change this.
What we have is a Jehovah's Witness who rejects the new covenant.
In the new covenant God promised to PUT His Spirit into the Israelites. But if they were created with His Spirit in this sense then there was no need for God to promise that in the future He would PUT His Spirit into them.
" And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and My ordinances you shall keep and do." (Ezekiel 36:27)
Ezekiel 36:26,27 is a prophecy of the new covenant.
"I also will give you a new heart , and a new spirit I will put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh.
And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and My ordinances you shall keep and do."
In the New Testament God imparts Christ into the believers in Christ. The rebirth gives man a new heart and a new spirit. Our heart is our loving organ, and our spirit is our receiving organ.
While man is fallen or backslidden, our heart toward God is stony and hard, and our spirit is deadened (Eph. 2:1; 4:18) .
The unbeliever's spirit is deadened and comatose, in need of being reborn.
And the backslidden Christian needs to set his mind ON the regenerated spirit.
Romans 8 is about the Christian needing to set his mind on the enlivened spirit.
When the Lord Jesus saves us or revives us, He renews our heart that is soft and loving toward Him. (See 2 Cor. 3:3) .
God enlivens the human spirit and renews the human spirit by causing the human spirit to be JOINED to Himself -
"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit." (1 Cor. 6:17)
He renews our innermost being, our human spirit, with His divine Spirit -
"And you, though DEAD in your offenses and in the uncircumcisn of your flesh, He MADE ALIVE together with Him, having forgiven us all our offenses." (Col. 2:13)
"[T]ogether with Him" (Col. 2:13) is also expressed as "JOINED TO THE LORD" in 1 Cor. 6:17.