Practical Help on Abiding in Christ

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Without faith it is impossible to please God. So all any 'works' that are done without faith do not please God.

Rehab the prostitute and Cyrus King of Persin.

Do some reading.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk

Without faith it is impossible to please God. So all any 'works' that are done without faith do not please God.

Thankyou for this confirming word.

We should see now that not only are works done without faith not pleasing to God but they can be counterproductive. He does not understand the diagnosis of the fallen man's condition.

1.) Sin seizes the opportunity through the law to enliven itself and work out in us sinning of all kind.

"What then shall we say? Is the law sin? Absolutely not! But I did not know sin except through the law; for neither did I know coveting, except the law had said, 'You shall not covet' " (Rom. 7:7)

Do not attempt to keep the law apart from faith in Christ. Otherwise you will only know sin more and more.

2.) Trying to keep the commandment apart from faith in Christ causes sin to seize the opportunity through the law to work out all kinds of sinning.

"But sin, seizing the opportunity through the commandment, worked out in me coveting of every kind; for without the law sin is dead." (v.8)

Rajk999's way to just go out there and keep the commandments without faith in the indwelling Christ leads to sin being enlivened. And sin then seizes the opportunity like a living evil person in us.

3.) There was some seeming freedom before attempting to keep the commandment apart from faith in Christ. But this leads to sin being revived. On general principle it rises up in the sinner who attempts to keep the commandments apart from faith in Christ.

"And I was alive without the law once, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died." (v.9)

4.) The very commandment (of God or self made) was intended to be unto life. Yet apart from faith in Christ the commandments ( of Moses or self made) are unto death.

"And the commandment, which was unto life, this very commandment was found to me to be unto death." (v.10)

5.) Working apart from faith in Christ causes sin to USE the law to kill us.

"For sin, seizing the opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me." (v.11)

" Did that which is good become death to me? Absolutely not! But sin did, that it might be shown to be sin by working out death through that which is good through the commandment ... " (Rom. 7:13)

All these verses show the negative danger of attempting to keep the law of God or of religious self made style. The evil nature of sin will rise up on general principle to drag you down, deceive you, kill you, and take opportunity to show you that it is more powerful than you.

The only answer is the living Jesus Christ imparted into the spirit of the man. By the victorious Christ a higher and stronger life with a unbeatable law of that life frees us from self condemnation and death.

" There is now then no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has freed me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of the flesh of sin and concerning sin, condemned sin in the flesh.

That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, WHO DO NOT WALK ACCORDING TO THE FLESH BUT ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT. ...

For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace." (See Rom. 8:1-4,6)

Originally posted by sonship

[b]Without faith it is impossible to please God. So all any 'works' that are done without faith do not please God.

Thankyou for this confirming word.

We should see now that not only are works done without faith not pleasing to God but they can be counterproductive. He does not understand the diagnosis of the fallen man's condition ...[text shortened]... esh is death, but the mind set on the spirit is life and peace." (See Rom. 8:1-4,6)[/b] [/quote][/b]

Two kinds of people in this world:

those who do good works who will hear Jesus say this:

Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat:
I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me:
I was sick, and ye visited me:
I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
(Matthew 25:34-36 KJV)

those who just talk and condemn those who do good works, and who will hear jesus say this:

Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat:
I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in:
naked, and ye clothed me not:
sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
(Matthew 25:41-43 KJV)

God looks down on the earth and sees TWO men - Adam and Christ.
See Romans 5:15-19 .

We are born in Adam. We need to be transferred from Adam into Christ.

Condemnation and death came through one man - Adam.
Justification and life came through one man - Christ.
There are really one two men in the universe. All men and women are in one of these two persons; either they are in Adam or in Christ.

Whoever is born of Adam is considered by God to be in Adam. She or he is OF Adam.
Their destiny is death and condemnation.
Christ, the second man and "the last Adam" became a divine life giving Spirit to cause the new nature to save from death and condemnation.

"For by the offense of the one death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ." (Rom. 5:17)

There is more than sufficient grace in Christ. The man being transferred out of Adam into Christ must receive the abundance of grace to overcome in divine life in Christ Jesus.

He is not merely forgiven. He is furnished with grace and "grace upon grace". Grace be received as a tsunami. Layers of grace must be received to be empowered to "reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ"

This is the NEW HEAD of a NEW HUMANITY. The first man became a living soul. The last Adam became a life giving Spirit to produce a new humanity of men indwelt by God Himself.

Our hope is in the grace that comes to us in Jesus Christ.

" Therefore girding up the loins of your mind and being sober, set your hope perfectly on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ." (1 Pet. 1:13)

Here again "girding up the loins of your mind" is another way of saying what Paul wrote - "the mind set on the spirit".

How consistent the New Testament is. How Paul and Peter are teaching the same thing. That is to set the mind or gird up the mind to receive the abundant grace coming at the unveiling of Jesus Christ.

We have seen that the Christian must set the mind on the spirit.
The spirit is the regenerated spirit where the Spirit of Christ has come.

The empowering of the life of Christ is with the regenerated spirit. Here is the proof:

" The GRACE of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers. Amen." (Gal. 6:18)

"Your spirit" means the Christian's regenerated innermost spiritual part - her human spirit. There the empowering of Christ IS.

" The GRACE of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit." (Phil. 4:23)

Christian - turn your mind to your spirit where the Spirit of Christ is and where the GRACE of Christ is to empower you to live.

" The GRACE of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit" ( Philemon 25)

Christian - with your born again spirit is the Lord Jesus Christ. In Christ is the enabling life power - the GRACE of Christ. You must learn to turn to your spirit.

In your spirit, Christian, is the Spirit of Christ -

" The Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you." ( 2 Timothy 4:22)

Because Christ the Lord is with the Christian's human spirit, therefore, the GRACE of Christ is with their human spirit. You have to discern your spirit and turn your mind to your spirit to let the grace of Christ flow through you.

Sonships esoteric ramblings and insistence on 'the spirit', to the detriment of almost everything else is nothing more than a form of neoplatonism inherited from Calvin which sees all matter as essentially evil. This is why he constantly focuses on 'The Spirit', not ever taking the time to understand any of the nuances of spirit as it is utilised in scripture with the exception of course to those verses which reaffirm his dogma.

Take for example 2 Timothy 3:16,17 All scripture is inspired (theopneustos, -God breathed) of God. Here we can see that the operation of Holy Spirit is to inspire the Bible writers.

Also if we consider the creation of Adam, 'Then God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed [theopneustos -God breathed) into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. Gen 2:7 Again we can see the action of the Holy Spirit animating Adam to life.

Sonhsips adherence to his pagan doctrines has blinded him to the operation of Gods Holy spirit and thus is sole conception is tat of a personage. I have pointed out his error in this matter numerous times but he remains arrogant and wilfully ignorant. His error is is own.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Sonships esoteric ramblings and insistence on 'the spirit', to the detriment of almost everything else is nothing more than a form of neoplatonism inherited from Calvin which sees all matter as essentially evil. This is why he constantly focuses on 'The Spirit', not ever taking the time to understand any of the nuances of spirit as it is utilised in ...[text shortened]... this matter numerous times but he remains arrogant and wilfully ignorant. His error is is own.

'For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom He wishes.' John 5:21

Does the 'breath of life' also come from Jesus?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
'For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom He wishes.' John 5:21

Does the 'breath of life' also come from Jesus?

I suspect that the source is the father although it can 'happen' through the son.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie

I still believe that there is hope for you. if God would have mercy to open your eyes.

Sonships esoteric ramblings ...

The soulish man considers the teaching of the apostles to be "foolishness". It very well could be that you consider what I write here (expounding on the Apostle Paul) to be "ramblings" and "foolishness" because you are in the natural man. And you have no experience and cannot discern spiritual matters.

and insistence on 'the spirit', to the detriment of almost everything else

My laboring on abiding in Christ through setting the mind on the regenerated spirit WHERE the Spirit of Christ lives for the Christian is only to the detriment of your religion of naturalness.

This emphasis is devastating to your naturalness of a religion VOID of the Holy Spirit and void of the regenerated human spirit.

is nothing more than a form of neoplatonism inherited from Calvin

In any of the passages that I elaborated upon please show me even the word "Calvin."
Before Calvin was ever born the Apostle Paul wrote Romans 6 - 8.

You cannot cry "Greek philosophy! Greek philosophy!" every time to excuse your own naturalness and tendency to view the apostolic teaching as "foolishness".

which sees all matter as essentially evil.

the book of Romans is not teaching Gnosticism.

In chapter 12 Paul tells the Christians to "PRESENT YOUR BODIES." He would not do this if he viewed their physical bodies as worthless to God, would he ?

"I exhort you therefore, brothers, through the compassions of God to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, well pleasing to God, which is your reasonable service." (Romans 12:1)

The bodies that Paul entreats them to present to the church life are the bodies of the believers who have undergone the process of sanctification to which he has elaborated on in chapters 6, 7, and 8.

These are bodies of material. These are bodies of believers who have learned to set their mind on the Spirit in their spirit to live a dispositionally sanctified life.

Paul has said that Christ will also "give life to your mortal bodies" Robbie.

" And if the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from among the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you." (Rom 8:11)

Do not think that this only refers to physical resurrection from the grave. Rather this includes giving life to "the body of this death" in chapter 7 which leaves the sinner with the feeling of wretched defeat.

" Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death?" (7:24)

Christ Jesus as the life giving Spirit (1 Cor. 15:45) will deliver him from the defeat of "the body of this death" BY giving life to his mortal body even before transfiguration.

Look at 24,25 together.

" Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death?

Thanks be to God, through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh, the law of sin.

There is now then no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. " (7:24-8:1)

The Christ Jesus coming INTO a man as the life giving Spirit can give life to the mortal body - " through His Spirit who indwells you" . So, THEN the Christians undergoing the process of this sanctification can present their material bodies to the church living -

" ... present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, well pleasing to God ..." (12:1)

If Paul is teaching that the material body is evil HOW then could he teach that the bodies presented to God are "HOLY, WELL PLEASING TO GOD" ?

The rest I will address in another post. But you have taken up a two pronged attack. Plato and Calvin verses the book of Romans. This will fail.

This is why he constantly focuses on 'The Spirit',

The AVAILABILITY of Jesus Christ is BECAUSE "THE LORD IS THE SPIRIT" ( 2 Cor. 3:17) .

We have to receive the Holy Spirit to benefit from the availability of the resurrected Jesus Christ.

He SAID that in His resurrection it would be EXPEDIENT for the disciples for Him to get INTO the disciples in that form.

" But I tell you the truth, It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you." (John 16:7)

The Comforter is Jesus Christ in resurrection in another form. That is a form in which Jesus Himself can come INTO the believers and make an abode with them. The Comforter's coming is Christ's coming.

" And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, the He may be with you forever,

Even the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because does not behold Him or know Him; but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you.

I will not leave you as orphans, I am coming to you." (John 14:16-18)

It is EXPEDIENT that Christ graduate from being AMONG them to being WITHIN THEM. It is a CLOSER relationship. It is a relationship by which man can now LIVE through Jesus Christ.

People may envy the twelve disciples and wish that they could have been there to walk with Jesus. But Jesus says it is EXPEDIENT that He send the Comforter to indwell them. That is to go from being AMONG them to being IN them. Do you believe the Lord Jesus?

"... but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you."

Jesus Christ in resurrection can come to be IN you.
Jesus Christ in His form of resurrection can come to be IN you.

In verse 18 the "I" is the "He" of the previous verse 17.
In other words, the "He" of the Comforter who is coming to the disciples is the "I" Who says "I am coming to you" That is Jesus.

" ... He abides with you and shall be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I AM COMING TO YOU."

We must receive Jesus Christ into our heart. This is not sentimental talk. This is actual talk. Jesus is in a form in which Jesus can come to live in you. And it is EXPEDIENT for us that we allow Him to do so.

He will not force Himself into you. He will respond faithfully to the invitation for Him to come into you.

I am gonna be honest, I didn't read any of that, too long winded.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am gonna be honest, I didn't read any of that, too long winded.

Longwinded is not the worst part of it.
Its a pile of repetitive nonsense that is irrelevant to the topic.

All he as said so far is that the Christian has to abide in Christ, and he says it a hundred ways using different words.

Jesus said that to abide in Him, you have to follow his commandments.

Sonship so far has said no such thing but instead has referred to the commandments of Christ in a derogatory fashion.

not ever taking the time to understand any of the nuances of spirit as it is utilised in scripture with the exception of course to those verses which reaffirm his dogma.

I know about the breath of God being breathed into the created man in Genesis. That was the creation of man's human spirit. But that was not God Himself coming to indwell man.

That was something very close to God being formed in man. That matter is the human spirit which receives God Himself.

That human spirit became comatose and deadened in the fall of man. It needs to be reborn, enlivened, and receive Christ Himself as "life giving Spirit" in the New Testament salvation.

If created man is with the Spirit of Jesus Christ then there would be no teaching that the saved man is to RECEIVE the Spirit of Jesus Christ.

" He who believes into Me, as the Scripture said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.

But this He said concerning the Spirit, which those who believed into Him were about to receive; for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified." (John 7:38,39)

They were ABOUT TO RECEIVE" . That means that they had not YET received this Spirit. And that means that they did not HAVE this Spirit merely by means of their being created men.

That means that even though Genesis says that God breathed into Adam the breath of life, man did not have the Holy Spirit. He was not yet until Jesus was glorified. Jesus was glorified in His resurrection:

"Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and enter into His glory? (Luke 24:26)

When Jesus suffered the crucifixion and was raised from the dead He entered into this glory. And the disciples could not receive the Spirit of Christ until Jesus had been glorified, ie. died for their sins and been raised in resurrection.

"But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed into Him WERE ABOUT TO RECEIVE; ... for THE SPIRIT WAS NOT YET, ... because Jesus had NOT YET BEEN GLORIFIED."

The Spirit of God is eternal (Hebrews 9:11) and was certainly there brooding over the waters in Genesis chapter 1. But the Spirit was only of the divinity of God. After the incarnation, living, death, and resurrection of Jesus the "eternal Spirit" contained the man Jesus.

This Spirit was not yet until Jesus was resurrected. And this explains why the word of God says that Jesus BECAME ... "a life giving Spirit"

"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

This is the Christ who comes to the disciples after creation and after His living, death, resurrection and glorification, to give life. This is more than God breathing into the nostrils the breath of life the creation of Adam.

This is the last Adam, Christ, coming in to create the NEW MAN.

" And if the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you. (Rom. 8:11)

Take for example 2 Timothy 3:16,17 All scripture is inspired (theopneustos, -God breathed) of God. Here we can see that the operation of Holy Spirit is to inspire the Bible writers.

The term "Holy Spirit" is first used in the Bible in relation to the incarnation of Jesus in the womb of Mary. The term "Holy Spirit" seems to be related to the joining of God to humanity.

In the Old Testament we do not have the term "Holy Spirit" in the proper translations of the Hebrew. We do have "the Spirit of His holiness", I believe twice, in the Old Testament.

At any rate, IF the disciples HAD the Holy Spirit from their natural birth as typical men then there would be no need for Jesus to tell them after His resurrection to RECEIVE what they already HAD.

" Then Jesus said to them again, Peace be to you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.

And when He had said this, He breathed into them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit." (John 20:21,22)

Chapter 7 says that they were ABOUT TO RECEIVE the Spirit (7:39). And here in chapter 20 they "RECEIVE the Holy Spirit."

The last Adam in resurrection "became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45b)

Also if we consider the creation of Adam, 'Then God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed [theopneustos -God breathed) into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. Gen 2:7 Again we can see the action of the Holy Spirit animating Adam to life.

It never says that the "Holy Spirit" was breathed into Adam.
Quote Genesis again and point out to us where the writer says "the Holy Spirit" was breathed into the nostrils of Adam.

What was breathed into Adam did give him his human spirit which died and became comatose when Adam sinned.

It was very close to God but not God Himself. And the breath of the Almighty which gives the created man understanding is one part of the human spirit which is the human conscience. Every fallen man has a human conscience which is part of the human spirit. And this conscience of man informing him of moral issues is called "the lamp of Jehovah" and set us apart from the animals.

" But there is a [human] spirit in man, And the breath of the Almighty gives them understanding." (Job 32:8)

Something very close to God is in human beings which is from "the breath of the Almighty". But this is not the Person of the Holy Spirit. But it does set us apart from the animals.

Here we see that it is called "the lamp of Jehovah".

" The [human] spirit of man is the lamp of Jehovah, Searching all the innermost parts of the inner being." (Proverbs 20:27)

So the human spirit is a wonderful thing. And the human spirit has as a part of its function the human conscience. And this conscience is said to be like God lamp by which He searches all the inner parts of the inner being.

But in the fall of man this spirit of man has become damaged, deadened, comatose, and we may even say it has become dead. Though the conscience does function in even the atheist and the unbeliever.

Regardless, the spirit needs to be BORN again in receiving the Holy Spirit to be joined to it.

" But if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the [human] spirit is [divine ZOE] life because of righteousness." (Rom. 10)

Christ as THE RIGHTEOUSNESS must come to touch and enliven the deadened and comatose human spirit. Then the human spirit IS LIFE ... because of righteousness. No righteousness through Christ's redemption and justification, and no life impartation.

Sonhsips adherence to his pagan doctrines has blinded him to the operation of Gods Holy spirit and thus is sole conception is tat of a personage. I have pointed out his error in this matter numerous times but he remains arrogant and wilfully ignorant. His error is is own.

Let your next post quote where "Holy Spirit" is breathed into man in Genesis.
If you cannot, then the "pagan" teaching is what you are getting down at your kingdom hall of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am gonna be honest, I didn't read any of that, too long winded.

Then you are satisfied with remaining in ignorance.

I read your posts carefully. Particualry, that is, when there is a need to debate a matter.
I do not always read your posts when I am not directly debating your point.

If you do not reciprocate that is YOUR weakness and YOUR loss.

Originally posted by sonship

not ever taking the time to understand any of the nuances of spirit as it is utilised in scripture with the exception of course to those verses which reaffirm his dogma.

I know about the breath of God being breathed into the created man in [b]Genesis. That was the creation of man's human spirit. But that was not God Himself coming to ...[text shortened]... e "pagan" teaching is what you are getting down at your kingdom hall of the Jehovah's Witnesses.[/b]

Let your next post quote where "Holy Spirit" is breathed into man in Genesis - Sonship

Sure NO problem.

The Greek pneu´ma (spirit) comes from pne´o, meaning “breathe or blow,” and the Hebrew ru´ach (spirit) is believed to come from a root having the same meaning. Ru´ach and pneu´ma, then, basically mean “breath” but have extended meanings beyond that basic sense. (Compare Hab 2:19; Re 13:15.) They can also mean wind; the vital force in living creatures; one’s spirit; spirit persons, including God and his angelic creatures; and God’s active force, or holy spirit. (Compare Koehler and Baumgartner’s Lexicon in Veteris Testamenti Libros, Leiden, 1958, pp. 877-879; Brown, Driver, and Briggs’ Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament, 1980, pp. 924-926; Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, edited by G. Friedrich, translated by G. Bromiley, 1971, Vol. VI, pp. 332-451.) All these meanings have something in common: They all refer to that which is invisible to human sight and which gives evidence of force in motion. Such invisible force is capable of producing visible effects.

Which of these definitions are you denying and why have you been unable to make a single reference to any of them beyond your insistence that the spirit is a person.