1. Standard membersonship
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    09 Sep '14 16:092 edits
    For those who fail to blame Jesus Christ for the New Testament's depiction of God's wrath upon the unreconciled, here is your own thread to prove He never taught about eternal punishement.

    Please go light on links and Youtubes and go heavier on your research.
    Quotations of other Bible scholars' views is ok with me.
  2. Standard membersonship
    the corrected one.
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    09 Sep '14 16:24
    Come on now. I expect more than crickets chirping into the wee hours of the morning.
  3. SubscriberProper Knob
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    09 Sep '14 16:32
    Originally posted by sonship
    Come on now. I expect more than crickets chirping into the wee hours of the morning.
    You need to give more than 13 mins for people to respond?!
  4. Territories Unknown
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    09 Sep '14 17:02
    Originally posted by sonship
    For those who fail to blame Jesus Christ for the New Testament's depiction of God's wrath upon the unreconciled, here is your own thread to prove He never taught about eternal punishement.

    Please go light on links and Youtubes and go heavier on your research.
    Quotations of other Bible scholars' views is ok with me.
    Blame?
    Such inflammatory rhetoric.
    The fact is, the Lord Jesus Christ spoke at length about that final separation between man and God--- apparently it was something He was very motivated to avoid.
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    09 Sep '14 17:27
    Originally posted by sonship
    For those who fail to blame Jesus Christ for the New Testament's depiction of God's wrath upon the unreconciled, here is your own thread to prove He never taught about eternal punishement.

    Please go light on links and Youtubes and go heavier on your research.
    Quotations of other Bible scholars' views is ok with me.
    Prove he did.

    And you'll need more than the one example in Matthew
  6. Joined
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    09 Sep '14 17:342 edits
    Originally posted by sonship
    For those who fail to blame Jesus Christ for the New Testament's depiction of God's wrath upon the unreconciled, here is your own thread to prove He never taught about eternal punishement.

    Please go light on links and Youtubes and go heavier on your research.
    Quotations of other Bible scholars' views is ok with me.
    What are you tryng to achieve sonship?

    Let's suppose you win this debate. What will you have done? You will have demonstrated to a bunch of onlookers that your god decided that those who reject his free gift will not just perish** (and by the way, "perish" is not eternal life in flames - think about that) they will be forever tortured in an eternal incinerator.

    Nice job if you pull it off; I'm sure The Lord will give you a pat on the head.

    **john 3:16
    for god SO LOVED the world that he gave his only son, that whoever believes into him will not PERISH, but have eternal life.
  7. Standard memberAgerg
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    09 Sep '14 17:35
    Originally posted by divegeester
    What are you tryng to achieve sonship?

    Let's suppose you win this debate. What will you have done? You will have demonstrated to a bunch of onlookers that your god decided that those who reject his free gift will not just perish (and by the way, "perish" is not eternal life in flames - think about that) they will be forever tortured in an eternal incinerator.

    Nice job if you pull it off; I'm sure The Lord will give you a pat on the head.
    Thumbs up
  8. Standard memberRJHinds
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    09 Sep '14 20:522 edits
    Originally posted by divegeester
    What are you tryng to achieve sonship?

    Let's suppose you win this debate. What will you have done? You will have demonstrated to a bunch of onlookers that your god decided that those who reject his free gift will not just perish** (and by the way, "perish" is not eternal life in flames - think about that) they will be forever tortured in an eternal i ...[text shortened]... hat he gave his only son, that whoever believes into him will not PERISH, but have eternal life.
    Perish generally refers to the death and decay of the body. The body may be considered dead in an instant. However it takes some time for the flesh to decay and even much more time for the bones. Jesus said the soul is not destroyed when the body is killed.

    And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

    (Matthew 10:28 KJV)

    But what would perish mean to the soul? Does the soul just fade away into nothing as atheist believe or do they even believe we have a soul? They certainly do not believe in the resurrection or the second death.

    The Holy Bible says Satan is destined for destruction and identifies the second death as the Lake of Fire and Brimstone prepared for Satan and his angels where they are tormented day and night forever. Does destruction for Satan mean perish in the sense of death, decay, and annihilation or does it mean tormented day and night forever?

    Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    (Matthew 25:41 KJV)

    And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

    (Revelation 20:10 KJV)

    Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

    (Hebrew 2:14 KJV)
  9. Standard memberRajk999
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    09 Sep '14 21:57
    Originally posted by sonship
    For those who fail to blame Jesus Christ for the New Testament's depiction of God's wrath upon the unreconciled, here is your own thread to prove He never taught about eternal punishement.

    Please go light on links and Youtubes and go heavier on your research.
    Quotations of other Bible scholars' views is ok with me.
    Is there a difference to you between:

    eternal punishment and
    eternal torment?

    You seem to think they are synonomous. They actually mean different things.
  10. Standard memberRJHinds
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    09 Sep '14 22:18
    Eternal torment or annihilation?

    http://www.bible.ca/su-annihilation-refuted.htm
  11. Standard memberRJHinds
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    09 Sep '14 22:441 edit
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Is there a difference to you between:

    eternal punishment and
    eternal torment?

    You seem to think they are synonomous. They actually mean different things.
    They are not synonyms, but torment can be considered a form of punishment.

    And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    {Matthew 25:46 KJV)

    The Greek word translated punishment here is Strong's number 2851 which can be translated punishment or torment.

    Death and punishment are not synonyms either.
  12. SubscriberFMF
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    09 Sep '14 23:511 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    For those who fail to blame Jesus Christ for the New Testament's depiction of God's wrath upon the unreconciled, here is your own thread to prove He never taught about eternal punishement.

    Please go light on links and Youtubes and go heavier on your research.
    Quotations of other Bible scholars' views is ok with me.
    Assuming that, by "eternal punishment", you mean that death is the "punishment" and that death is final and "eternal", then surely it is uncontroversial except for the fact that the permanence of this end of life is being attributed by religionists to their God figure and framed as being a divine and wrathful wish. Therefore, surely it is instead up to the said religionists ~ like yourself ~ to prove that "teaching" about "eternal life" is true. That something was written about something by someone or other is moot. The onus is on you to establish that the "something" they wrote about [i.e. their forecast about the fate of "the unreconciled"] is reality. Note: the strength of your personal belief is not evidence.
  13. Standard memberRJHinds
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    10 Sep '14 02:371 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Assuming that, by "eternal punishment", you mean that death is the "punishment" and that death is final and "eternal", then surely it is uncontroversial except for the fact that the permanence of this end of life is being attributed by religionists to their God figure and framed as being a divine and wrathful wish. Therefore, surely it is instead up to the said ...[text shortened]... e of "the unreconciled"] is reality. Note: the strength of your personal belief is not evidence.
    What if the punishment is torment night and day forever and ever? (Rev. 14:11; 20:10)
  14. SubscriberFMF
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    10 Sep '14 02:49
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    What if the punishment is torment night and day forever and ever? (Rev. 14:11; 20:10)
    Then the onus is on you to establish that this punishment is a reality.
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    10 Sep '14 02:55
    Originally posted by FMF
    Then the onus is on you to establish that this punishment is a reality.
    Not me. I'm not God.

    HalleluYah !!! Praise the LORD! Holy! Holy! Holy!
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