A most salient point which appears to have gone unremarked in this thread is the lack of distortion in the image on the 'shroud'. Had it been 'burned' into the linen when it was wrapped around a body, the resulting image would in no way resemble that which is apparent. The only way to achieve the perceived image would be for it to be applied or transferred onto the material while it was laid or held flat, unwrapped, unfolded and unwrinkled. This fact alone surely is enough to enable one to disregard it as the 'holy' relic as claimed?
Originally posted by avalanchethecatApparently not. 😏
A most salient point which appears to have gone unremarked in this thread is the lack of distortion in the image on the 'shroud'. Had it been 'burned' into the linen when it was wrapped around a body, the resulting image would in no way resemble that which is apparent. The only way to achieve the perceived image would be for it to be applied or trans ...[text shortened]... fact alone surely is enough to enable one to disregard it as the 'holy' relic as claimed?
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-Removed-You are so ignorant of the history of the Shroud of Turin and the Sudarium of Oviedo, yet you contiune to make dumb comments without trying to educate yourself on the matter by looking at the videos. At least read this article on the Sudarium so you don't continue looking like an uneducated moron.
http://www.shroud.com/guscin.htm
-Removed-Nothing. I said nothing that even suggests that is true.
What is it about the Shroud of Turin being ONE relic and the Sudarium of Oviedo being ANOTHER relic that you do not understand? One piece and another piece total TWO pieces. How hard is that to grasp? Did you not read the entirety of my last post? Or maybe you just passed it through your filter of "what you want to believe"? At least that's more honest than twhitehead's filter of "what he wants everyone else to believe".
-Removed-She says that you were misunderstanding scripture because scripture does not say the garment is two pieces. The face cloth is not the Shroud of Turin. The face cloth is called the Sudarium of Oviedo. The scriptures never says that there is two Shrouds.
There are different interepretations of both the passage in Luke and in John. Most translate it as the body in wrapped in linen, or linen clothes, or strips of linen. So the text is not completely clear and it is up to how the translator believes it should be. It could be refering to being wrapped in one linen sheet or more than one linen sheet. Or it could be referring to one linen sheet around the body that is tied with several small strips of linen, which is the way one of the Shroud researchers said it appeared to be done at one time. We do know from the text in John that the face cloth was separate from the other linen that wrapped the body, however. That face cloth is today believed to be what is called the Sudarium of Oviedo.
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-Removed-Well, since the Sudarium of Oviedo has matching points with the head portion of the Shroud of Turin to show that it covered the head and face of the same man covered by the Shroud, including the same bood type AB, there is good reason to believe it is the face cloth. I can't imagine early Christian keeping a bloody rag like that unless it did mean something important to them, like the resurrection of Christ. I believe that is the reason and you can believe whatever you wish.
P.S. The point is that nobody, including the scientists that investigated both relics, have been able to give any other credible explanation for what they represent.
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Originally posted by RJHindsBut they don't have to provide a credible explanation. All they have to say is it's cloth that has some blood on it. Now demonstrate that this has actually been in contact with a divine corpse. That passes the issue back to the believers. Can they produce anything other than "You must have your head up your arse if you don't believe numbnuts"? No? Not proven then.
Well, since the Sudarium of Oviedo has matching points with the head portion of the Shroud of Turin to show that it covered the head and face of the same man covered by the Shroud, including the same bood type AB, there is good reason to believe it is the face cloth. I can't imagine early Christian keeping a bloody rag like that unless it did mean something ...[text shortened]... ted both relics, have been able to give any other credible explanation for what they represent.